NHS Database Opt Out

[[TW]Fox]

The point people are missing is that having a highly secure centralised database STOPS peoples data going missing on laptops left on trains. Because the data isn't on the laptop anymore...

 

[stockhausen]

The point people are missing is that having a highly secure centralised database STOPS peoples data going missing on laptops left on trains. Because the data isn't on the laptop anymore...

Why would Doctors carry "people's data" around on laptops

Have you seen many operations performed on trains?


"I'm on the train . . . I'm having open heart surgery; you have supper now and don't wait up for me."


Incidentally, many GPs access their surgery databases from home nowadays and they DON'T have any sort of card to do it.

 

[deuse]

Deuse, quit with this nonsense please. Firstly, unless you hadn't noticed, this is Overclockers UK - a forum based in the UK. We're talking about a UK system so all of your inane ramblings are utterly irrelevant.

Secondly, I've been to the US, about ten times. I'm surprised just how much information does get disclosed over there (make a call to 911, don't be surprised if you end up on the local news - I've seen it happen). However, I've been to Florida four times now (including visiting secure installations) and I'm still alive. I'm not exactly a picture of health either. Kindly quit with the drama llama.

I was talking to someone else here about the US ways of doing things not you

Oh and I am a USA\UK citizen as I married a yank so I think I know about my state in the US more then you

And I will add the UK is going the US way and not just in health.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Why would Doctors carry "people's data" around on laptops

Firstly I've no idea if people carry laptops around on trains - I am merely making a suggestion based on peoples paranoia - and secondly doctors are not the only people in the health service. I was merely highlighting an area where it should increase perceived security - as it would prevent that sort of thing, irrespective of whether it actually happens or not.

Incidentally, many GPs access their surgery databases from home nowadays and they DON'T have any sort of card to do it.

Thats a completely different database and a surgery is an independant organisation.

 

[stockhausen]

... And I will add the UK is going the US way and not just in health.

According to Gordon Brown, Nick Clegg will put a stop to that . . . although Clegg did seem somewhat bewildered by Brown's suggestion.

 

[stockhausen]

Firstly I've no idea if people carry laptops around on trains - I am merely making a suggestion based on peoples paranoia - and secondly doctors are not the only people in the health service. I was merely highlighting an area where it should increase perceived security - as it would prevent that sort of thing, irrespective of whether it actually happens or not. ...

So why would these "non-Doctors" (Administrators or Management Consultants presumably) be carrying patient data around on laptops and why would they suddenly stop doing it if there was a centralised database

... That's a completely different database ...

Which it is proposed should be replaced by a massive centralised database . . . or are you suggesting that GP Surgeries would have a completely separate "shadow" database or that they will no longer need remote access to their data


Whilst it is great idea in theory, in practice the whole NHS database scam is an unworkable White Elephant designed by external suppliers and Management Consultants to siphon off vast sums of money from the NHS

 

[Vinnylupo]

ill send a pdf with code injection and end up getting full rdp access to the box. Where i can install anything and from there i can slowly work my way through the vpn. Once there i can go at that network directly, who knows.

I am not even that good. Just don't come say it is completely secure when it is not. If is it on a PC then it is possible to access it.

Oh, but how will you be able to get their smartcard? Mug them?

 

[wannabedamned]

Whilst it is great idea in theory, in practice the whole NHS database scam is an unworkable White Elephant designed by external suppliers and Management Consultants to siphon off vast sums of money from the NHS

explain what makes this unworkable exactly, the infrastructure is already in place, as can be seen by the many companies that already use VPNs

 

[Xordium]

Front-line professionals in the NHS do not believe that there is any significant benefit to the public in the currently proposed centralised database or that it is a sensible use of scarce resources, whatever administrators, management consultants, the remaining suppliers, Google & Microsoft may pretend.p

I see the benefit so your argument kind of falls a bit flat there. It is a much needed system you have no idea how much hassle I have getting the information I need. In fact that's a lie you have no idea how much hassle my reg spends getting what I need But that time would be better spent learning, eh?

 

[VeNT]

Why would Doctors carry "people's data" around on laptops

Have you seen many operations performed on trains?


"I'm on the train . . . I'm having open heart surgery; you have supper now and don't wait up for me."


Incidentally, many GPs access their surgery databases from home nowadays and they DON'T have any sort of card to do it.

your right.
it's not a card it's a dongle or token depending.
doesn't plug into the PC so you're not getting there.
btw about that adobe code injection. I could tell you why that wouldn't work but tbh you'ed only come back with ANOTHER stupid idea.

 

[Xordium]

Why would Doctors carry "people's data" around on laptops

A few years back we would have done that with say research trial data or patient letter records (we kept them as word files and then just added the new letter on the end so if you had a long-stayer you'd have this 200 page document in no time - the new people always printed-all to our amusement), amongst a host of other things.

 

[stockhausen]

your right.
it's not a card it's a dongle or token depending.
doesn't plug into the PC so you're not getting there.

No it doesn't. I know for a fact that a number of GPs access their surgery database system from home without ANY card, dongle or anything else - I have watched two of them do it. Some (but not all) GPs may well use a different system.

... btw about that adobe code injection ...

WHAT

 

[VeNT]

No it doesn't. I know for a fact that a number of GPs access their surgery database system from home without ANY card, dongle or anything else - I have watched two of them do it. Some (but not all) GPs may well use a different system.

what people forget is that GP systems are not NHS systems.
they do however have access to some NHS system VIA our network for which they have to use OUR network/VPN etc

WHAT

was talking about below

ill send a pdf with code injection and end up getting full rdp access to the box. Where i can install anything and from there i can slowly work my way through the vpn. Once there i can go at that network directly, who knows.

go at the network as much as you like. the traffics encrypted so all you're gonna see is garbled

I am not even that good. Just don't come say it is completely secure when it is not. If is it on a PC then it is possible to access it.

yes.
but only if we want you to.

 

[LordSplodge]

No way I'm opting out.
I've got quite a medical history and I feel it's damn important that any medical professional who treats me has full access to my history.

Same here. I'd rather not die/risk serious injury due to access to my medical records being delayed. I'd much rather take the much smaller risk of my records being leaked.

 

[stockhausen]

what people forget is that GP systems are not NHS systems.
they do however have access to some NHS system VIA our network for which they have to use OUR network/VPN etc.

Fair enough, I don't know enough about any existing centralised NHS systems to comment.

... was talking about below ...

Phew, that's a relief, not me then; I was really starting to worry there

 

[anything I don't mind]

i have never had a problem in the past. All this emphasis on information in the NHS. I think it is completely absurd and they have taken it way too far. Why the hell does it matter what my ethnicity is when i go to the doctor for a cold. They want to know all sorts of unrelated information which leads me to think it is only for data mining purposes and not for my benefit.

Sure there is a benefit for knowing if the person is allergic to morphine for example. But if you don't know you are that won't be on the records until it is too late anyway. All these justifications for having all the medical information available is some what a farce.

I have always said the NHS is more concerned about getting me to fill in forms than why i am at the doctor.

 

[LordSplodge]

Sure there is a benefit for knowing if the person is allergic to morphine for example. But if you don't know you are that won't be on the records until it is too late anyway. All these justifications for having all the medical information available is some what a farce.

Excuse me? I'm on immune suppressant tablets that interfere with a lot of other drugs. I know I'm on them and if I am coherent I can tell the doctor or nurse that is dealing with me. Trouble is most of the time I have to go into hospital I am not in a fully conscious or coherent so they could quite innocently give me drugs that may harm me if they don't have access to my files.

 

[Xordium]

Why the hell does it matter what my ethnicity is when i go to the doctor for a cold.

Because you do not understand the relevance does not mean there is not one - I am guessing you are not a health-care professional.

For example, I would be rather interested in knowing whether a person had an ethnicity tied to the eastern part of the med as that would indicate to me that they would receive no benefit potentially from codeine due to a high-incidence of lacking the necessary ability to convert codeine to its activated and therefore effective form in people from that region.

There are multitude of other such situations where a doctor or nurse might be interested in your ethnicity which you would have no idea of. And this is just for treatment let alone getting onto audit and research. For example, are all people of a certain ethic group seeking treatment for disease X when another group does not present at all. If so preventative measures could be targeted accordingly and maybe more cost-effectively. I really hope we are able to do such things more effectively in the future.

 

[anything I don't mind]

i guarantee there will still be cases where they will give the incorrect drugs in spite of this new database system.

In the past people would carry a medical card that would have information if they were terminally ill or had a serious medical problem it is in their interest to do what they can. But I just can't see that as justification for a £12 billion database of peoples medical records. It would be ok if i could just tick a box that says i don't want any medical records kept.

Because you do not understand the relevance does not mean there is not one - I am guessing you are not a health-care professional.

For example, I would be rather interested in knowing whether a person had an ethnicity tied to the eastern part of the med as that would indicate to me that they would receive no benefit potentially from codeine due to a high-incidence of lacking the necessary ability to convert codeine to its activated and therefore effective form in people from that region.

There are multitude of other such situations where a doctor or nurse might be interested in your ethnicity which you would have no idea of. And this is just for treatment let alone getting onto audit and research. For example, are all people of a certain ethic group seeking treatment for disease X when another group does not present at all. If so preventative measures could be targeted accordingly and maybe more cost-effectively. I really hope we are able to do such things more effectively in the future.

well the doctor can just look at me and see what ethnicity i am. why keep a record of it ? Like i said it is a farce.

 

[VeNT]

Because you do not understand the relevance does not mean there is not one - I am guessing you are not a health-care professional.

For example, I would be rather interested in knowing whether a person had an ethnicity tied to the eastern part of the med as that would indicate to me that they would receive no benefit potentially from codeine due to a high-incidence of lacking the necessary ability to convert codeine to its activated and therefore effective form in people from that region.

There are multitude of other such situations where a doctor or nurse might be interested in your ethnicity which you would have no idea of. And this is just for treatment let alone getting onto audit and research. For example, are all people of a certain ethic group seeking treatment for disease X when another group does not present at all. If so preventative measures could be targeted accordingly and maybe more cost-effectively. I really hope we are able to do such things more effectively in the future.

not just that but knowing these things changes how you treat people.
if you have it on file that your patient is a Jehovahs witness then you're not going to give them a blood transfer are you? but if it's not on the database then you'll never know and could. upon waking up the could be VERY angry AND SUE YOUR ASS. (has happened before)
same goes for other religions too.
as an aside there was talk recently that a couple of drugs where in testing that worked for people of certain ethnic origins respond well to where as others do not.

I'd rather the NHS has my details than not tbh.