Employment Gurus Please! (Sickness)

Nix

Nix

Nix

Soldato
Joined
26 Dec 2005
Posts
19,841
Hi, I'm currently off sick this week (fourth/fifth day) self-diagnosed from work. I've never pulled a 'sicky' and wouldn't have taken the time off unless I needed it.

I've been calling work everyday this week to let them know that I'm still not well enough to work. On each occassion this was at least 4-5 hours before my shift was due to start. Today however, the lady who does the rota turned around and said:

"You know you're supposed to call between 8am and 9.30am?"

"No?"

"X told you the other day."

"Did she? Sorry, it must not have registered."

"Well, you know that you're not going to get paid for these days off as you haven't called in time?"

"Whatever, bye."

I've decided to deal with her next week as I couldn't be bothered with an argument over the phone.

As you can see, the lady is of the opinion that because I haven't called in within the specified time (basically to make her life easier) that I'm now not going to be paid, which I'm not sure but I don't think that they're actually allowed to do?

As I've said, I've called in with plenty of time before each shift; never less than 4-5 hours. Reading the guidelines on direct.gov.uk, it says that I'm only required to call my line-manager at least an hour prior to starting work.

Indeed, I'm not currently well at the moment and they expect me to be awake at 8am when they've had me doing evening shifts for over half a year? I'm sorry, but my body clock simply doesn't function on 'normal' time at the moment. That's like asking a normal worker to call at 3-4am.

It follows too that and from the first time I called in at the start of the week they should've realised I wasn't going to be in. I have however, called every day regardless out of politeness and because I also know this particular lady to be a bit 'useless'; I didn't want to shaft any co-workers and wanted to make sure that my shift would definitely get covered rather than have her turn around and pass the blame back onto me.

Now, my question is: is she actually allowed to withold my sick pay, taking the above information into consideration? She's effectively turned around and spited me despite the fact I was trying to do the company a favour by keeping them updated. Obviously I'm annoyed and I know she will withold my pay - which legally, I don't actually think she can - unless I fight her on it.

If I'm in the wrong then that's just hard luck and I'll let it go, but if she's taking away my pay that I am entitled to, then I'm not going to be best pleased.

Any opinions/perspectives are appreciated. TIA.
 
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Afaik she cannot withhold SSP and you can fill out a self certifcate when you get back

Out of curiousity , did you phone in late on day 1?
 
Obviously this woman is an idiot and isn't aware that not everybody starts work at 9am or thereabouts.

Just speak to your line manager instead, as she obviously doesn't know the rules and so on :p
 
Robboftw said:
Obviously this woman is an idiot and isn't aware that not everybody starts work at 9am or thereabouts.

Just speak to your line manager instead, as she obviously doesn't know the rules and so on :p
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Unfortunately, she's the lady who deals with all the hours and pay. My direct line-manager doesn't.
 
Is it company sick pay or SSP, the company cannot withold SSP, but can depending on your contractual terms withold Company sick pay.

Normally as long as you called within the alloted time on the first day of sickness then you should be covered.

Do you belong to a union?, if so they will be able to sort out any discrepancy with sickpay, or you could just say you were not informed of the rule, regardless of what the woman says and see where that goes.

Next time, I would get the self-cert from the Docs and sent it into work straight away, then you have no obligation to phone everyday as you have signed yourself off for the entire week, if you wish to return before the week is up you are entitled to do so if you inform them the day before you wish to return.
 
Nix said:
Unfortunately, she's the lady who deals with all the hours and pay. My direct line-manager doesn't.
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Yes, but I'm sure your line manager could assist you in putting your point forward if needby, or as you said, deal with her when you are back.

Does it say anywhere in your contract about sick pay calling times and so on? As if you haven't been told then they cant hold it against you surely!

If she claimed you were told last time you called, simply say that you werent.
 
Right, just got off a phone to a friend and he said that when he was last sick he only called in the once and was paid what he thinks was CSP.

My friend also claimed that as I haven't been with the company for over a year yet that I am not eligible for sick-pay.

This raises the two questions:

Does that mean that I'm not eligible of company sick-pay, or sick pay full-stop?

Am I eligible for SSP?

As for calling-times, it's the first I've heard of it but my friend said that yes, it is the normal way of doing things. Regardless, I was unaware and I still called well in advance so I think the point is completely moot.
 
Robboftw said:
Nix, does it say anything in your contract about sick pay? (Don't think you've mentioned it anywhere :p)
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I'll go have a look now.

EDIT:

I seem to have both copies of my signed contract. Haha. :p

It says that absences, must be reported no later than 8am. However, this obviously means the contract is wrong/changed. Regardless, calling in that early when my body-clock has shifted towards evening work isn't what I'd describe as a reasonable expectation. I have on each occassion given at least 4-5 hours notice of my absence. Indeed, I never actually had to call in after my initial call, but still did so for their benefit. I'm entirely certain that if I hadn't, my co-workers would've been 'shafted' and the blame placed firmly at my feet.

Failure to comply with this procedure may lead to the withholding of any Company sickness payment that may be due and will render you liable to disciplinary action.
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Pff.

Company Sick Pay

The Company operates a discretionary sick pay scheme which will apply in respect of your own sickness or incapaity for work, provided the proper notification and certification procedures have been complied with and provided you are not under a disciplinary warning for poor attendance.

Statutory Sick Pay

The Comany adheres to current legislation governing SSP.
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Nix said:
Right, just got off a phone to a friend and he said that when he was last sick he only called in the once and was paid what he thinks was CSP.

My friend also claimed that as I haven't been with the company for over a year yet that I am not eligible for sick-pay.

This raises the two questions:

Does that mean that I'm not eligible of company sick-pay, or sick pay full-stop?

Am I eligible for SSP?

As for calling-times, it's the first I've heard of it but my friend said that yes, it is the normal way of doing things. Regardless, I was unaware and I still called well in advance so I think the point is completely moot.
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It is pretty standard for company sick pay to be only given after 12 months and then is is usually on a sliding scale depending on length of service to how many days/weeks you are entilted to.

It would seem as you have not been with the company for the required period you will not get CSP, now SSP is paid to you regardless, as it is Statutory Sick Pay, although it is not payable for the first three days of sickness. Your employer has a legal obligation to pay you your entitlement of SSP. When you qualify for CSP, this can be made up of CSP and SSP to equate your weekly basic earnings.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTa...CreditsAndOtherSupport/Illorinjured/DG_175843
 
So, if I called in sick on Wednesday, Wed-Fri are no longer entitled for SSP, but Saturday and Sunday are? I only had short pathetic 4-5 hour shifts for these days, but that'll still add up to 9 hours, which still equates to over £57.

Will I be paid SSP automatically, or will I have to apply/hassle this woman for it?
 
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It seems as if the contract would cover them, but as I said, they aren't working some staff the "usual" hours, so there must be exceptions.

I'm sure if you take it up with the woman in question and explain, you won't meet much resistance as that would be harsh.

It also doesn't say anything about 12 months in your contract so I doubt that would apply, although it might.
 
Nix said:
So, if I called in sick on Tuesday, Tuesday-Thursday are no longer entitled for SSP, but Friday, Saturday and Sunday are? I only had short pathetic 4-5 hour shifts for these days, but that'll still add up to 14 hours, which still equates to over £85.
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If your entitled to SSP only, then it is an amount set by the government, it is a benefit paid by them through the PAYE system and as such would not equate to your lost pay. I don't know what the current rate of SSP is, about £70 a week I expect, then minus the 3 days, it won't be very much. SSP is paid automatically as long as you hand in your self-certificate when you return to work, also judging by your salary, you would be entitled to a tax rebate which would also be automatically paid to you via paye.

CSP rules do not have to be part of your set contractual agreement, they can be changed by the company at any time, there is no legal requirement for a company to provide sick pay. If it states in your contact, all well and good, they would have to abide by this, but its not neccessary to include CSP in your contract formally.

So the 12 month rule need not be in your contract, but would still be enforcable under the companies terms and conditions.
 
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So am I potentially looking at around £100+ of lost earnings?

I've got two weeks worth of holiday beginning on Monday thankfully, so at least I'll be paid for those. :p

It's a shame because £100 to me with the pennies I currently earn is relatively a lot of money; it's about 1/6th to 1/7th of what I'm currently taking home a month! :(

Just saw the contract: 7.8k pa.

I really, really need a proper career!
 
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Nix said:
So am I potentially looking at around £150+ of lost earnings regardless?
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From the information you have given, I am afraid that is the case. If you are entitled to CSP after all, then there may also be a three day waiting period on that also. (companies such as Tesco do this).
 
**** sake.

I need to get out of this bloody circumstance. It's holding me back. :(

Thanks for your help guys. Much appreciated.
 
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