Wages Overpayment - Advice please?

[el_dazza]

Right, this one could turn out to be long-winded (and it really is for a paltry sum, but here goes..)

I started a job as Deputy Manager with TM Retail (also known as McColl's, Martin's, and RS McColl) on the 29th of September last year. After just over 6 weeks in the job, I decided it wasn't for me, and left on the 11th of November. Now, on the 19th of December last year, I recieve a letter from them stating they've overpaid me by £73.11, and they want it back. I phoned them and told them I thought they'd made a mistake and to send me a detailed breakdown of why they thought I'd been overpaid. Their pay cycle works like this: you get paid on the 30th on each month, for any time worked between the 20th of the previous month and the 19th of the current month. So for October, you'd get paid on the 30th for anything worked between 20th September and 19th October.

Confused yet? I still am..

Now, they sent me a screenshot on hours worked for Weeks 48-52 of their calendar year. Week 48 was W/C 26/10/09, Week 49 was W/C 2/11/09 and Week 50 was W/C 9/11/09. I left having worked 3 days of Week 50 - the 9th, 10th and 11th.

My working is this:

29/9/09-11/11/09 = 44 days worked.
In previous pay, they had deducted me 2 weeks in my last full pay packet, and 1 week's pay in my final pay packet which included my holiday pay.

29/9/09-30/11/09 = 63 days. Take off the 3 FULL weeks pay they'd taken from me and that leaves 42 days I'd been paid for, when I'd worked 44.

So I'm underpaid by 2 days by my reckoning. 2 days pay is (269.22*0.2857 = 76.92)

Therefore 76.92-73.11 = £3.81 in my favour. Obviously I'm not going to chase them back for this. Can anyone confirm I've worked this out correctly before I go ahead and do anything? I thought they'd dropped it, but I had another letter stating FINAL DEMAND PAY NOW 1!1!!11 today so I'd like to tell them to shove it, but getting my facts 100% correct before doing so.

Thanks for reading, appreciate any replies.

 

[apatia77]

I can't get my head around this

 

[el_dazza]

I can't get my head around this

I know, i spent weeks trying to work it out. It even confused the CAB

 

[Lord_Kokain]

Your company's way of pay is about as confusing as mine and they are both totally different from each other...

As far as I can see, your calculations make sense unless the number of days you give us is correct(I havent counted them myself). There might be some sort of a bureaucratic mistake when it comes to the week in which you did 3 days. From the way they seem to push the matter of this overpayment story, Im also hoping that they are just as ready to talk about it so maybe they can themselves give you a reasoning if your calculations are wrong.There is nothing wrong in trying and see what happens.

 

[el_dazza]

Your company's way of pay is about as confusing as mine and they are both totally different from each other...

As far as I can see, your calculations make sense unless the number of days you give us is correct(I havent counted them myself). There might be some sort of a bureaucratic mistake when it comes to the week in which you did 3 days. From the way they seem to push the matter of this overpayment story, Im also hoping that they are just as ready to talk about it so maybe they can themselves give you a reasoning if your calculations are wrong.There is nothing wrong in trying and see what happens.

I might try and give them a call again, but last time their answer was "Debt Agency x is dealing with it now, speak to them" :/

 

[bledd]

did you take any holiday? weekends etc?

 

[el_dazza]

did you take any holiday? weekends etc?

Didn't take a day's holiday in the time I was there, no.

 

[Greebo]

You are perhaps going wrong by assuming you work 7 days a week and you get paid for 7 days a week (unless you do?????)

Assuming you work 5 days a week, say Mon to Fri, there are 32 working days between 29th september to 11th November.

Paid monthly (assuming they pay the same amount every month?) they are paying you for 21.67 days worked every month.

Therefore 2 months pay = 43.34 days paid less 3 weeks = 15 days deductions = 28.34 days.

By my calculation they owe you 3.66 days pay!

I started this reply by assuming you were wrong but I have changed my mind! I can only assume they think they ovepaid you because they only deducted a weeks pay from your final pay. If they pay from the 20th to 19th of the following month and you left on the 11th, they should have deducted you 8 days pay or 1.14 weeks.

However, they seemed to have messed you your first months pay by paying you a full month less two weeks deductions.

You started on the 29th and they pay from the 20th. That means you were only missing 9 days from the full months pay yet they deducted 14 days.

Anyway, the point is they need to prove that you were overpaid so write to them stating that they need to prove this.

Since you are writing to them, please feel free to use my calculations to show that they have actually underpaid you by 3.66 days and you want paying £140.76!

In your calcuations (which may be correct) there is no need to knock of the £73.11 they claim they have overpaid you. If you (or I ) am right, they owe you that money (£76.92 or £140.76) not just £3.81.

 

[fidget]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to your final demand for overpayment of my wages.

I have reviewed the situation and calculated the overpayment to be £3.81 as per my workings below.

[paste workings here]

I enclose a cheque for £3.81 as full and final settlement.

Regards

El dazza

 

[Dave M]

Put your working down on paper and send it to them stating you dispute their amount. Advise them they can provide their own working to prove they are in fact right or take you to court and let the judge decide.

If any debt company phones tell them the debt is in dispute, they then can't pursue it any further.

 

[Greebo]

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to your final demand for overpayment of my wages.

I have reviewed the situation and calculated the overpayment to be £3.81 as per my workings below.

[paste workings here]

I enclose a cheque for £3.81 as full and final settlement.

Regards

El dazza

Errr he says THEY owe him £3.81, not the other way round. lol

 

[meghatronic]

I spent months chasing up a mystery £14 in my paycheque once (someone got fired for not reporting overpayments before)... turns out it was just accrewed holiday pay I hadn't claimed. Like 40mins or something daft.

I think, however, I'd seek legal advice (CAB).

 

[el_dazza]

You are perhaps going wrong by assuming you work 7 days a week and you get paid for 7 days a week (unless you do?????)

Assuming you work 5 days a week, say Mon to Fri, there are 32 working days between 29th september to 11th November.

Paid monthly (assuming they pay the same amount every month?) they are paying you for 21.67 days worked every month.

Therefore 2 months pay = 43.34 days paid less 3 weeks = 15 days deductions = 28.34 days.

By my calculation they owe you 3.66 days pay!

I started this reply by assuming you were wrong but I have changed my mind! I can only assume they think they ovepaid you because they only deducted a weeks pay from your final pay. If they pay from the 20th to 19th of the following month and you left on the 11th, they should have deducted you 8 days pay or 1.14 weeks.

However, they seemed to have messed you your first months pay by paying you a full month less two weeks deductions.

You started on the 29th and they pay from the 20th. That means you were only missing 9 days from the full months pay yet they deducted 14 days.

Anyway, the point is they need to prove that you were overpaid so write to them stating that they need to prove this.

Since you are writing to them, please feel free to use my calculations to show that they have actually underpaid you by 3.66 days and you want paying £140.76!

In your calcuations (which may be correct) there is no need to knock of the £73.11 they claim they have overpaid you. If you (or I ) am right, they owe you that money (£76.92 or £140.76) not just £3.81.

Well, that was my first working. I thought they owed me £140 and a bit of change, to the same tune you're playing, but after consulting the CAB, the working I'd provided was the one the CAB suggested was the easiest to use.

Perhaps I should have explained, I was salaried at £14,000p.a, £1166.67/month. Overtime is not taken into consideration and my days off sometimes were none a week, 1 a week, or 2 a week, and I didn't have set days or hours. I have written and phoned them asking for proof, they sent a screenshot of hours worked but only for the weeks I stated above, hence a further request, which was subsequently ignored.

This is why I posted this up here, because I really don't know how to challenge them, and for how much. I'm 99.9% certain that I'm correct here, I just need further advice. Thanks for your reply though, it makes perfect sense to me as that was my first train on thought way back in January

Dear Sir/Madam,

I refer to your final demand for overpayment of my wages.

I have reviewed the situation and calculated the overpayment to be £3.81 as per my workings below.

[paste workings here]

I enclose a cheque for £3.81 as full and final settlement.

Regards

El dazza

I worked out they owed me £3.81, not vice versa

I spent months chasing up a mystery £14 in my paycheque once (someone got fired for not reporting overpayments before)... turns out it was just accrewed holiday pay I hadn't claimed. Like 40mins or something daft.

I think, however, I'd seek legal advice (CAB).

Already tried the CAB mate, they actually weren't as helpful as I'd expected. Was there for a good hour explaining it to them, and the poor bloke I was speaking to seemed as confused as me! He did offer the calculation I'd posted in the opening post, which is the one that's easiest to calculate imo.

 

[fidget]

Errr he says THEY owe him £3.81, not the other way round. lol

Doh! Ah well, send it anyway - it might confuse them as much as their demand has the OP

Seriously though - a final demand and debt collectors for such a small amount (and ex-employee)??

Now where's that sledge hammer - I need to crack a nut...

 

[el_dazza]

Doh! Ah well, send it anyway - it might confuse them as much as their demand has the OP

Seriously though - a final demand and debt collectors for such a small amount (and ex-employee)??

Now where's that sledge hammer - I need to crack a nut...

Yeah it's really pathetic isn't it. This has been going on for over 4 months now and I just want to put it to rest, through whatever means necessary. I'm not giving them a penny though, til they can prove me wrong otherwise! I've already told the debt collection company to basically do one until McColl's have contacted me with proof, but nothing as such yet.

 

[Greebo]

In which case you are right to use the full 7 days per week in your calculations.

However there is a flaw in your calculations which I have just spotted.

You have indeed worked 44 days from 29/9 to 11/11.

However they have paid you from 20/9 to 19/11 not 29/9/09-30/11/09 as you stated (2 full months) less the 3 weeks deductions.

There are two ways of looking at this.

12 equal monthly payments is 30.41 days pay per month so they have paid you 2 * 30.41 = 60.83 less 21 = 39.83 days.

End result they have underpaid you 4.17 days.

The other more unlikely scenario:

20/9 to 19/11 is actually 60 days less 21 days deducted = 39 days which means they owe you 5 days.

I would use my first calculation to write to them saying they owe you 4.17 days.

As I said before, deducting 2 weeks pay in your first month is where they have gone wrong. This is true whether you work a 5 day or 7 day week - it's either 3.66 or 4.17 days depending on which.

 

[I get around]

My companys pay is easy and they still manage to **** it up every time. I can only assume they're retarded or the managers are trying to underpay all the staff to save money.

Hopefully I'll get back the 400 quid or so they owe me this month instead of them giving me a little back and docking more for unknown reasons.

I wouldn't fret over them giving you 3.81 extra, sod em, it's an inconvinience charge.

 

[el_dazza]

You have indeed worked 44 days from 29/9 to 11/11.

However they have paid you from 20/9 to 19/11 not 29/9/09-30/11/09 as you stated (2 full months) less the 3 weeks deductions.

There are two ways of looking at this.

12 equal monthly payments is 30.41 days pay per month so they have paid you 2 * 30.41 = 60.83 less 21 = 39.83 days.

End result they have underpaid you 4.17 days.



As I said before, deducting 2 weeks pay in your first month is where they have gone wrong. This is true whether you work a 5 day or 7 day week - it's either 3.66 or 4.17 days depending on which.

Reckon that's worth a go then? It's a tad confusing isn't it!

I don't think it was my FIRST month's pay they'd taken it from, but my second. However, I believe it was taken with regard to my first month's pay which they felt should be adjusted.

My pay ended up like this (gross, not net):

30th Oct = 1166.67, no deductions
30th Nov = 628.33, 2 weeks deducted
Final pay = -269.22 (1 weeks deduction) + 163.26 Holiday Pay + 21.20 PAYE + 11.65 NI = -73.11

Does that make a difference? End result is they've still taken 3 weeks off of me.

Swines never sent my P45 off either so I was on emergency tax this whole time as well, to cop it all off.

Having thought about it again, 20/9-28/9 is 9 days (started on the 29th) and 12/11-19/11 is 8 days. That's 17 days I didn't work but they deducted 21 in all that, leaving them owing me 4 days.. Does that make sense too?

 

[Greebo]

Does that make a difference? End result is they've still taken 3 weeks off of me.

Swines never sent my P45 off either so I was on emergency tax this whole time as well, to cop it all off.

Having thought about it again, 20/9-28/9 is 9 days (started on the 29th) and 12/11-19/11 is 8 days. That's 17 days I didn't work but they deducted 21 in all that, leaving them owing me 4 days.. Does that make sense too?

Ah that explains why they think you owe them -£73.11 then!. They haven't actually paid you for two months less 3 weeks as there wasn't enough money left.

Yes it does make sense. Paying you in three pay periods makes no difference to my calculations. Ignoring your holiday pay, they have still only paid you for two months less 3 weeks.

And yes, looking at it like that you get to 4 days owed as well which just proves my calculations are correct (shame on CAB though)

The extra 0.17 days owed comes from that fact that a months pay is not a straight round number of days paid.

So I would give it go. 4 days money is worth the effort as it will cancel out the £73.11 you do technically owe them (if your wages had been correct) and leaves them owing you £80.73.

 

[el_dazza]

Ah that explains why they think you owe them -£73.11 then!. They haven't actually paid you for two months less 3 weeks as there wasn't enough money left.


So I would give it go. 4 days money is worth the effort as it will cancel out the £73.11 you do technically owe them (if your wages had been correct) and leaves them owing you £80.73.

Sorry, should have stated that in the first place. I'll get onto them and see what they say, thanks for your help