Poll: The Last Leaders Debate – Live tonight at 2030 BST on BBC One

[Rich_L]

Oh you mean the show they put on for their voters to watch?

I mean proper politics, the stuff done behind closed doors rather than the amateur dramatics laid on for the populace Stuff like the Select Committees and suchlike, where cross-party committees just get on with it and get stuff done

 

[bam0]

I think the reality of the situation is that if a hung parliament occurs, none of the Parties will be able to agree on a budget and that will kick off another election where a winner (probably the Tories) will gain an overall majority.

Our political parties are too divisive to create the sort of coalition Government we see in Europe, it didn't work in the 1970s and it won't now.

They act that way at the moment, and understandably so, as they are fighting to try and secure a majority government. It would be a rude insult to the electorate if any coalition government fell apart quickly, and possibly disastrous for whichever side was deemed to be the cause. If many other governments around the world manage it, why do Britons expect so little from theirs?

 

[meghatronic]

It's funny, my peer group is mostly highly educated professionals 25-40, most clustering around 30. Amongst those I know there is a massive swing towards the LibDems, and it's not because of the media presentation (many had decided before the debates started), it's because they've read the policies of the parties and broadly agree with the LibDems.
It's easier to categorise those you don't agree with as deluded or hoodwinked than consider the fact they may have taken as much time as you to inform themselves and come to a different conclusion.

Clearly you keep more informed company than I. Despite a few exceptions (as of last Friday) none of my colleagues and their friends (pub meet) had read any of the manifestos but were all very, very much pro-LibDem. I had to bite my tongue. So, I can only assume it's due to web 2.0/media/bandwaggon as there is no way this many people could be LibDem by chance. From lawyers to scientists (mainly) to IT staff and a dancer.

 

[Gaidin109]

They act that way at the moment, and understandably so, as they are fighting to try and secure a majority government. It would be a rude insult to the electorate if any coalition government fell apart quickly, and possibly disastrous for whichever side was deemed to be the cause. If many other governments around the world manage it, why do Britons expect so little from theirs?

Most European countries have a history of coalitions, we do not. Even so many of those coalitions are ineffectual or sluggish. Many just fail, look at Italy fir example. Germany had a huge problem forming a coalition.

I hope if it comes to it, that one can be made that is effective and cooperative, I just don't hold up much hope if it.

 

[aslco]

The Times, who have not supported the Conservatives in 18 years, have come out for the Conservatives

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article7113404.ece

you're absolutley mad if you think a piece of news corp owned media isn't conservative or republican bias anyhow. That's very ignorant. The headline is merely just yet another one piece of tory support that we regularly see from the sun, torygraph, times, daily mail, ITV etc....

 

[meghatronic]

Most European countries have a history of coalitions, we do not. Even so many of those coalitions are ineffectual or sluggish. Many just fail, look at Italy fir example. Germany had a huge problem forming a coalition.

This is what the BBC were saying earlier. The UK does not 'do' hung-Parliaments of coalitions (cf. Heath). We have very little (if any?) successful experience at it.

SNP and Plaid have said, effectively, they won't form a coalition, and LibDem will (selfishly) only form if electoral reform is promised. To say it looks bleak is an understatement. As much as the loony left would like you believe the opposite (as it's in their best interests not ours), a hung Parliament would be disastrous.

 

[bam0]

This is what the BBC were saying earlier. The UK does not 'do' hung-Parliaments of coalitions (cf. Heath). We have very little (if any?) successful experience at it.

SNP and Plaid have said, effectively, they won't form a coalition, and LibDem will (selfishly) only form if electoral reform is promised. To say it looks bleak is an understatement. As much as the loony left would like you believe the opposite (as it's in their best interests not ours), a hung Parliament would be disastrous.

The devolved Parliaments are all coalitions, they seem as functional as any other government. As I said before if the electorate return a hung parliament I expect the politicians to knuckle down and get on with it, any party being maliciously disruptive would do so at its own peril.

 

[Nix]

Selfish, agreed. But do you honestly feel that an electoral reform isn't due? Our current system is archaic and nothing but tradition worship. Surley it's time to develop something more pragmatic?

 

[Rich_L]

Quite the opposite, it would be incredibly selfish of the Tories not to agree to electoral reform if the LibDems agreed to support their economic proposals and suchlike.

 

[meghatronic]

you're absolutley mad if you think a piece of news corp owned media isn't conservative or republican bias anyhow. That's very ignorant. The headline is merely just yet another one piece of tory support that we regularly see from the sun, torygraph, times, daily mail, ITV etc....

The Times and The Sun have been demonstrably pro-Labour for the past decade at least. "Regularly" is bs. They jumped ship as, like most of the country, they are disenchanted with Labour/Brown.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/417fa1a2-...uid=fdb2b318-aa9e-11d9-98d7-00000e2511c8.html

But, nevermind a? You keep with the anti-establishment down with Murdoch etc etc snore etc.

 

[meghatronic]

Selfish, agreed. But do you honestly feel that an electoral reform isn't due? Our current system is archaic and nothing but tradition worship. Surley it's time to develop something more pragmatic?

I agree an electoral refom is due - of course - playing with the BBC seat thing shows this. PR is not the answer (in my humble belief). Redrawing the constituencies INDEPENDENTLY would be a great start.

 

[Rich_L]

The reason that the system is so skewed is nothing to do with the constituency boundaries, if it was redrawn 'independently' (which presumably means, so the Tories get in every time) you would still have the problem that with FPP in a genuinely 3 party system (as we have at present), you can have a party with a majority of seats that 2/3rds (or more even) of the country voted against.

BTW I loved the Sun's desperation

Pretty big words for a Page 3 beauty - that's my mind changed

 

[Nix]

There was a model on P3 from Basildon once. Amusingly, she didn't have any opinion at all.

 

[meghatronic]

The reason that the system is so skewed is nothing to do with the constituency boundaries, if it was redrawn 'independently' (which presumably means, so the Tories get in every time) you would still have the problem that with FPP in a genuinely 3 party system (as we have at present), you can have a party with a majority of seats that 2/3rds (or more even) of the country voted against.

BTW I loved the Sun's desperation

Pretty big words for a Page 3 beauty - that's my mind changed

To be fair, I once knew an escort with a PhD in Neuroscience.

No, by independently, I merely meant not pro-Labor. As I said, FPP is not the answer, PR is not the answer.

 

[Dolph]

I agree an electoral refom is due - of course - playing with the BBC seat thing shows this. PR is not the answer (in my humble belief). Redrawing the constituencies INDEPENDENTLY would be a great start.

They are redrawn independently, there is just a 10 year lag between data gathering and redraw. The boundary changes this year are based on data from 2000, hence are already massively out of date, and the population migration internally results in this favouring Labour as there is a pretty constant move away from their heartlands, resulting in them having most of the smalller seats.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

BTW I loved the Sun's desperation

Pretty big words for a Page 3 beauty - that's my mind changed

So, if David Cameron was Davina Cameron and was 6ft, blonde, FAF and had 38DD dangling globes of joy ....... would you vote Tory Rich ?

 

[semi-pro waster]

The Statistics Commission state that 68% of immigrants into this country since 2002 have been from non EU Countries.


Telegraph 2008:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...f-migrants-into-the-UK-set-to-hit-200000.html


http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/

Nick Cleggs claim of 80% from the EU is false: only 20% are from the 15 EU countries that have no restrictions placed on them. Cameron also mentioned transitional controls to apply to all new members including those currently subject to controlled immigration.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=15053

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/LSELondon/pdf/irregular migrants full report.pdf

So if we assume that present trends continue then approximately 1/3 or 60,000 migrants will still be coming into the UK and there is absolutely nothing that any party can do about it except withdraw from the EU (which would be a very bad idea). The flexible cap of 50-70,000 would double the number of migrants up to around 120,000 every year so it's a 1/3 (or just over) down on present assuming trends continue.

None of the above bothers me, I don't think that immigration is a particular problem in the UK or perhaps I should say it isn't one that I see affecting me or people I know. It's a problem in that some people object to it - although I suspect some of the people objecting would do so whether there was one foreign person coming into the UK or twenty thousand. I just object to the policy appearing to be presented as something it is not.

However as I've said, I've voted now so it's largely irrelevant for me, I have no interest in trying to influence peoples votes even if I had the power to do so. Anything I'm posting is just an observation for whatever it is worth.

 

[Gaidin109]

So if we assume that present trends continue then approximately 1/3 or 60,000 migrants will still be coming into the UK and there is absolutely nothing that any party can do about it except withdraw from the EU (which would be a very bad idea). The flexible cap of 50-70,000 would double the number of migrants up to around 120,000 every year so it's a 1/3 (or just over) down on present assuming trends continue.

None of the above bothers me, I don't think that immigration is a particular problem in the UK or perhaps I should say it isn't one that I see affecting me or people I know. It's a problem in that some people object to it - although I suspect some of the people objecting would do so whether there was one foreign person coming into the UK or twenty thousand. I just object to the policy appearing to be presented as something it is not.

However as I've said, I've voted now so it's largely irrelevant for me, I have no interest in trying to influence peoples votes even if I had the power to do so. Anything I'm posting is just an observation for whatever it is worth.

I thjink it is easy for people like myself to dismiss the impact immigraton has had on some communities. My community has few immigrants, especially Eastern Europeans, so it doesn't affect us here in Salisbury all that much.

If I lived in Peterborough however, and if my life was adversely impacted regarding lack of services and infrastucture to cope with huge influxes of people then I may think differently.

It will be interesting in this atmosphere of austerity measures and cutbacks on public services whether any of the political solutions will be affective.

 

[rypt]

Just had Lib Dems canvassing, actually had a decent discussion with the guy. I flat out told him that I'm not voting for his lot, and am voting UKIP or Tory and listed why, and then talked a bit about EUSSR.

 

[dannyjo22]

None of the above bothers me, I don't think that immigration is a particular problem in the UK or perhaps I should say it isn't one that I see affecting me or people I know. It's a problem in that some people object to it - although I suspect some of the people objecting would do so whether there was one foreign person coming into the UK or twenty thousand. I just object to the policy appearing to be presented as something it is not..

I had pretty much the same feelings as you living in Cambridge. We have a few eastern europeans working the fields or in fast food restuarants, doing jobs that the workshy cannot be bothered to do. Good on them. It doesn't reall affect me although I have noticed there seems to be so many of them I can walk down aisles of tesco's and not hear anyone talk in english

We have more of a problem with ****ing ****** than anyone from Eastern Europe or Asia.

Then I started working in Mos Eisley, Luton. I've worked there for nearly 3 years now and if ever there is a decent example of localised immigration being a problem it's there. you can practically feel the tension.

I can understand why it's an bigger issue for some than others because up until 3 years ago I assumed anyone banging on about immigrants was a bigot until I observed some of the tensions myself in an area I didn't live.