Anyone get annoyed at bundled toolbars and rubbish?

Soldato
Joined
12 Oct 2003
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4,027
I've noticed recently two good programs i use (Foxit Reader & ImgBurn) now try installing that stupid 'ask toolbar', i understand they want to make a little money but these toolbars are so pointless i don't get why they even make them, they must act as an advertisment because i can't see what else they're good for, obviously i never let them install as i always look before clicking buttons, but this one is bad because before you even get the option to do anything it runs an exe anyway and tries contacting home, this is really taking the **** because it's doing something i would never agree with, tracking is going on at the very least which is unacceptable and who knows what else it might be up to! :mad:
 
You can deselect them during the install process, it won't stop you installing the product, well, at least for Foxit I know that's true.

Also, if anyone uses Piriform products (Ccleaner, Defraggler, Recuva), you can download a 'slim' version that comes without the toolbar completely. Check the 'other builds' link out when you choose download on their site.
 
I know i can deselect but it runs it anyway in the background before i even get the option as my firewall asks if it wants to connect to the internet, it shoulnd't run anything without my permission, that's what bugs me, developers can bundle what they like within reason but its dodgey practices like this and making things tricky for the average user that annoys me, most just click next next next without thinking and other times it is hidden anyway or runs something regardless, turns decent software to the dark side!
 
At least you can deselect it, and your firewall is doing it's job, so blocking it isn't a problem. I'm happy to put up with it to a point, as the software is free, and these guys have to pay the bills just like we do.
 
Yeah like i said i can understand but these things should be super clear and never run anything you don't want, thats all i ask, open and honest, no tricks or dodgey practices, i feel these guys have crossed the line, like most bundled junk sadly, just not seen this stuff for ages which was why i made the thread, a shame really for whats otherwise decent software! :(
 
I agree, it should certainly be clear. Perhaps you could drop them an email and let them know how you feel, you may not be the first to mention it and it could be improved based on your feedback. The good thing about smaller software companies is they often listen to their users!
 
The imgburn one annoyed me the other week, the installer seemed to hang briefly at the point where it prompted you to install the toolbar. I ended up clicking on the checkbox twice thinking it had stopped responding and then hastily clicked through (two unchecks make a check!) and subsequently installed said toolbar. I actually had to make a rare trip to the registry to get rid of it completely. Very annoyed.

If it keeps the software going though, so be it.
 
Adobe is the worst, try to get Adobe Reader and they try to force toolbars on you and that rubbish Adobe DLM... I just want the reader not all the garbage.
 
I've had no problem at all with optional bundled toolbars. I just deselect them and deny internet access when my firewall prompts me. Doesn't bother me at all. :)
 
Adobe is the worst, try to get Adobe Reader and they try to force toolbars on you and that rubbish Adobe DLM... I just want the reader not all the garbage.

Just go to the bottom of the page and download the MSI through HTTP instead.
 
The imgburn one annoyed me the other week, the installer seemed to hang briefly at the point where it prompted you to install the toolbar. I ended up clicking on the checkbox twice thinking it had stopped responding and then hastily clicked through (two unchecks make a check!) and subsequently installed said toolbar. I actually had to make a rare trip to the registry to get rid of it completely. Very annoyed.

If it keeps the software going though, so be it.

This happens to me too, and it happens when installing Trillian too. Seems like it's been designed that way to make you think exactly what you did and end up installing the toolbar.
 
I agree, it should certainly be clear. Perhaps you could drop them an email and let them know how you feel, you may not be the first to mention it and it could be improved based on your feedback. The good thing about smaller software companies is they often listen to their users!

I've been bawled at a few times on these very forums by people deriding my insistence on using a firewall capable of blocking outbound connections [something windows firewall doesn't do by default]. This kind of 'phone home' crap is precisely the reason....
 
I've been bawled at a few times on these very forums by people deriding my insistence on using a firewall capable of blocking outbound connections [something windows firewall doesn't do by default]. This kind of 'phone home' crap is precisely the reason....

Please make a distinction of the behavior of the Windows Firewall and what it does and doesn't do by default. Whilst the behavior of the Windows Firewall may not provide the thing which you may value by default, to simply say the Windows Firewall doesn't provide outbound filtering what so ever by default is incorrect because it does, for services. :)

Wole Moses said:
Restricted Network Access:

Windows Vista includes a new firewall that builds upon the capabilities delivered in the Windows XP SP2 firewall. Key new capabilities include outbound filtering and IPsec integration. The new firewall also integrates with Windows Vista Services Hardening to make it more difficult for malware running within an exploited Windows service to perform certain improper network activities.

In the Windows Vista firewall, Windows services are assigned network firewall policies that provide limitations and restrictions on service behavior. For example, a service like Plug and Play, which may never need to communicate over a network port, can be assigned a "no network access" restriction. With this restriction in place, an exploit designed to target that particular service could never reach the service via some network-based approach. Any attempt, inbound or outbound, by that restricted service to communicate would be blocked by the firewall. Other services that have legitimate needs to access a network can be configured to use only specific ports. Developers can take advantage of this capability to restrict their service's network access.

The network restrictions combine with Service Hardening to provide a robust defense against potential service based attacks, which is a big improvement over previous versions of Windows. Previously, there was no way for Windows to decide how, where, and which services were allowed to communicate via the network. However, by using the Windows Vista Firewall Network restrictions against the RPC service, we could prevent viruses such as Blaster, Sasser, or Welchia from using infected services to communicate with other machines.

Services Hardening in Windows Vista

Steve Riley said:
Controlling Outbound Connections:

Earlier, I said that the typical form of outbound protection in client firewalls is just security theater. However, one form of outbound control is very useful: administratively controlling certain types of traffic that you know you don’t want to permit. The Windows Vista firewall already does this for service restrictions. The firewall allows a service to communicate only on the ports it says it needs and blocks anything else that the service attempts to do. You can build on this by writing additional rules that allow or block specific traffic to match your organization’s security policy (see Figure 3).

*Snip*

Exploring The Windows Firewall

Jesper M. Johansson said:
Outbound Filtering:

The lack of outbound filtering in the Windows XP SP2 firewall was held out as the primary proof that the built-in firewall was inadequate for security. There must be thousands of articles written about how insecure the Windows XP SP2 firewall is due to its lack of outbound filtering. This is in spite of the fact that no firewall on Windows XP could securely provide outbound filtering.

The fundamental functionality that transforms outbound filtering into a useful security feature from a mere speed bump—or policy enforcement tool, as I used it earlier—simply does not exist in Windows XP. It does exist, however, in Windows Vista. It is only logical, therefore, that the new firewall makes use of this feature. By default, most inbound traffic is blocked and most outbound traffic is allowed.

By default, outbound filtering in the new Windows Vista firewall blocks only unnecessary traffic from services. This is actually all that can be done to provide protection against a compromise on the host that provides the outbound filters, and doing this on Windows XP would have been meaningless.

Services in Windows Vista can run with a highly restricted token. In essence, each service has its own security identifier (SID), which is unique to that service. This Service SID can be used to restrict access to resources, such as network ports. This is the same functionality we saw earlier when we looked at restricting traffic to users. This means that even though two services may run as NetworkService, they cannot manage each other's processes and the firewall can be configured to allow only one of them to communicate out. If the one that is blocked is compromised, it cannot hijack the allowed service and use its allowed port to communicate out because the port is restricted by Service SID.

This functionality is another one of the very cool security features added to Windows Vista, and the new firewall uses it to actually provide real security value by outbound firewall filtering.

In fact, firewall filtering on service SIDs is enabled by default in the new firewall. However, there is no GUI to configure it. The rules are predefined in the HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\services\sharedaccess\parameters\firewallpolicy\RestrictedServices registry key. You should be very careful, however, with modifying that key manually, as this is unsupported.

Managing the Windows Vista Firewall
 
Please, please, please make a distinction of the behavior of the Windows Firewall and what it does and doesn't do by default. Whilst the behavior of the Windows Firewall may not provide the thing which you may value by default, to simply say the Windows Firewall doesn't provide outbound filtering what so ever by default is incorrect because it does, for services. :)



Services Hardening in Windows Vista



Exploring The Windows Firewall



Managing the Windows Vista Firewall

Let's not get pedantic. By default, the windows firewall wouldn't block yahoo toolbar or whatever from accessing the internet. Fact.

We'll be banging on about the risks of running as administrator again if we're not careful....

;)
 
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Let's not get pedantic.

Making sure people are fully informed about something isn't being pedantic, it's just making sure people are fully informed about something. I'm not quite sure how that can be a bad thing.

By default, the windows firewall wouldn't block yahoo toolbar or whatever from accessing the internet. Fact.

Yes, but that is slightly different in saying the Windows Vista or Windows 7 firewall doesn't provide any outbound filtering by default.

When someone corrects me on things, in material on weather I think the correction is of any importance or not, it's always nice to be fully informed and I personally would have just said something along the lines off "Ah, that's interesting to know. I didn't realise that beforehand. Thank you." and left it at that.

Regarding the very first part of my post though where I said "Please, please, please", that was a little unnecessary so I apologise (and have edited my post) if it came across in a rather inappropriate way.

Anyway, peace out (as well as goodnight) and I apologise to everyone for going off-topic. :)
 
I'm annoyed that companies and fair trade commission decided to SUE microsoft for not offering alternatives... What do google do? They ghost install Chome when you install google earth.

What a joke!
 
I'm annoyed that companies and fair trade commission decided to SUE microsoft for not offering alternatives... What do google do? They ghost install Chome when you install google earth.

What a joke!
Personally I would say Apple are worse. Why do I NEED Bonjour if I install iTunes? Why can't I not install that Mr Jobs?
 
The amount of home PCs I fix and find a good 3, 4 or 5 toolbars on is amazing. Most common are Google (which is fine I guess), Yahoo, MSN/Live, ASK, Epson/HP ones, a lot (spyware), AVG/Norton, Skype..
 
Personally I would say Apple are worse. Why do I NEED Bonjour if I install iTunes? Why can't I not install that Mr Jobs?

iTunes need Bonjour to discover other shared iTune libraries on the network.

I agree with some posters above re: toolbars. Any company still developing toolbars deserves to go under - wtf is this - nineties? I also think companies adding unrelated junk toolbars to firefox plugins (like FoxLingo) should get blacklisted by browser itself in subsequent release.
 
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