Poll: The Last Leaders Debate – Live tonight at 2030 BST on BBC One

[PermaBanned]

I wish it was that simple. Its a really difficult decision this time around, not sure if anyone else is finding this but the more i read about each parties policies the more difficult the decision on which party offers the best option for the UK's future. I don't think it helps that non of the parties are really being honest about the grave economic situation this country is in. But then, is the electorate ready for that kind of honesty after all ignorance is bliss.

So if they're all the same on those issues shouldn't you look at where they stand on the other issues that you agree/disagree with? Like homosexuality, for instance.

The conservatives won't bring a better future for Britain, they'll screw with the common people even more than labour have been doing.

 

[badcompany]

I was hoping as a society we had moved away from homophobia

nope

 

[RDM]

So if they're all the same on those issues shouldn't you look at where they stand on the other issues that you agree/disagree with? Like homosexuality, for instance.

With a gay shadow cabinet minister and several prominant gay conservative politicians and candidates I struggle to see how they conservative party are against homosexuality these days. But lets not let the facts get in the way of a good tory bash eh?

 

[Luseac]

The conservatives won't bring a better future for Britain, they'll screw with the common people even more than labour have been doing.

Please list all the examples you can think of how the conservatives will 'screw with the common people'. Infact better than that, what conservative manifesto proposals lead you to believe such a thing?

 

[RDM]

Please list all the examples you can think of how the conservatives will 'screw with the common people'. Infact better than that, what conservative manifesto proposals lead you to believe such a thing?

Thatcher personally went in to his school and took his milk. A terrible crime that to this day has scared him.

 

[PermaBanned]

Did we miss the story on the last page? It's like catholicism all over again.

Why will they screw with the common people? Because they're Tory. It's what they do. Why is it that every time we come to a turning point people forget all about this and see them as an actual option to consider?

 

[Luseac]

Thatcher personally went in to his school and took his milk. A terrible crime that to this day has scared him.

Thought as much... Honestly, i'm sick to death of people saying "they'll screw the working man!!!11" - it's the only line of attack people seem to have on the tories, that and a misguided jibe that somehow lends itself to the idea that a Prime Minister shouldn't have gone to the best school in the country

 

[Luseac]

Why will they screw with the common people? Because they're Tory. It's what they do. Why is it that every time we come to a turning point people forget all about this and see them as an actual option to consider?

What.A.Load.Of.Crap.

Have you got any EVIDENCE from their manifesto please?

Not some pathetic "Waaaaa it's what they always do!!!!"

 

[Dolph]

Did we miss the story on the last page? It's like catholicism all over again.

Spotlight fallacy. Some of the Labour and Lib Dem candidates also have such things in their pasts and indeed in the present. There is absolutely no sign of such beliefs being institutional in the party, all there is is no sign of rampant authoritarianism in banning the idea either.

Why will they screw with the common people? Because they're Tory. It's what they do. Why is it that every time we come to a turning point people forget all about this and see them as an actual option to consider?

Good to see you're as objective and rational as ever. You appear to be ignoring just how bad for civil liberties, the poor and the public finances the last 13 years have actually been. Given the choice between more of the same and an alternative, there is only one rational choice. There will be cuts, there will have to be, Labour have broken the economy and nearly broken the country. Some of those will fall on the low paid who have been suckling at the unfunded teat of state spending, that's not a bad thing, it's a necessary thing to make this country successful.

 

[PermaBanned]

Thought as much... Honestly, i'm sick to death of people saying "they'll screw the working man!!!11" - it's the only line of attack people seem to have on the tories, that and a misguided jibe that somehow lends itself to the idea that a Prime Minister shouldn't have gone to the best school in the country

How about because the upper classes can't represent a country that consists mainly of people who work for a living? If you really want to look at politics with a conservative attitude how about we look at who was last in power before this Tory/Labour streak. Oh yeah, the Liberals. And if my history is up to scratch we we doing pretty well as a country then.

Again, Dolph, you assume that since i despise the Tory's for what they've done to this country that i'm a labour supporter?

 

[scorza]

What.A.Load.Of.Crap.

Have you got any EVIDENCE from their manifesto please?

Not some pathetic "Waaaaa it's what they always do!!!!"

Since when has a manifesto ever bore any resemblance to what a party actually does during its time in power? Judging a political party by its past performance in government is a perfectly legitimate thing to do, that so many people still don't trust them after 13 years of Labour tells you that they have not fundamentally changed.

 

[dante6491]

Did we miss the story on the last page? It's like catholicism all over again.

Why will they screw with the common people? Because they're Tory. It's what they do. Why is it that every time we come to a turning point people forget all about this and see them as an actual option to consider?

It wholly depends on your opinion of "screw". I liked the poll tax for instance, it was fair, everyone paid the same regardless of externalities, we were treated like equals. On the other hand how could a student be expected to pay £400 and thus should be treated differently, thus implying they are not equal.

It is the same Con vs Lab. Will the conservatives screw people because they have to pay for prescriptions whilst paying less tax for example, or will labour screw people by charging more tax to make prescriptions free

 

[Dolph]

How about because the upper classes can't represent a country that consists mainly of people who work for a living? If you really want to look at politics with a conservative attitude how about we look at who was last in power before this Tory/Labour streak. Oh yeah, the Liberals. And if my history is up to scratch we we doing pretty well as a country then.

The liberals are not the lib dems... Classical liberalism consists of tory style spending plans with better social freedom, the lib dems are nothing like the liberals of old.

 

[Luseac]

How about because the upper classes can't represent a country that consists mainly of people who work for a living? If you really want to look at politics with a conservative attitude how about we look at who was last in power before this Tory/Labour streak. Oh yeah, the Liberals. And if my history is up to scratch we we doing pretty well as a country then.

Again, Dolph, you assume that since i despise the Tory's for what they've done to this country that i'm a labour supporter?

I'm sorry but you've completly failed to give me any Conservative Manifesto proposals which lead you to believe the Conservatives will 'screw the working man'. So I suggest you wave goodbye to the 1980s, take off your blinkers and open your eyes.

 

[PermaBanned]

The liberals are not the lib dems... Classical liberalism consists of tory style spending plans with better social freedom, the lib dems are nothing like the liberals of old.

No, but they're the best of a bad bunch at the minute. It's a shame that politics has come to this, and Cromwell will be turning in his grave, but it's true. We essentially have a choice of three parties, one of which has screwed us over the past decade and a half, one of which will screw us over until we remember what idiots they are and vote them out again and one that we just don't know.

Yes, i am saying literally that 'it's worth a try'.

Incidentally, i remember you saying you looked up to Thatcher *spits*?


@Dante: That's not equality, that's clearly in favor of keeping the rich rich and the poor poor. One person living in a mansion surrounded by servants and another struggling to keep a roof above their head are not treated as equals. But they are.

@Lucasade: See scorza's post.

 

[Luseac]

Since when has a manifesto ever bore any resemblance to what a party actually does during its time in power? Judging a political party by its past performance in government is a perfectly legitimate thing to do, that so many people still don't trust them after 13 years of Labour tells you that they have not fundamentally changed.

But people have no reason not to trust them for god sake. It's just the same old stupid British mentality of loathing someone from a more priviledged background and not letting go of the past.

 

[scorza]

But people have no reason not to trust them for god sake. It's just the same old stupid British mentality of loathing someone from a more priviledged background and not letting go of the past.

IMO politicians need to earn our trust - it's not enough to say "trust us - we haven't been in government for 13 years". In particular, George Osbourne has offered us nothing to show that he can be entrusted with the economy. I really fear for the future of this country with him at the helm, we could be the next Greece if he starts his ill-judged, swingeing public spending cuts.

 

[dante6491]

@Dante: That's not equality, that's clearly in favor of keeping the rich rich and the poor poor. One person living in a mansion surrounded by servants and another struggling to keep a roof above their head are not treated as equals. But they are.

That completes my argument perfectly. It is all based around your meaning of the words, fair, equal, screw etc. We simply have different views of the same coin really. From my end you seem to be thinking along the lines of making everyone equal, with progressive taxes etc. On the other hand I prefer that everyone should be treated as equals.

 

[meghatronic]

IMO politicians need to earn our trust - it's not enough to say "trust us - we haven't been in government for 13 years". In particular, George Osbourne has offered us nothing to show that he can be entrusted with the economy. I really fear for the future of this country with him at the helm, we could be the next Greece if he starts his ill-judged, swingeing public spending cuts.

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/t...w-parris-shower-praise-on-george-osborne.html

(not that I like the guy that much)

 

[Dolph]

No, but they're the best of a bad bunch at the minute. It's a shame that politics has come to this, and Cromwell will be turning in his grave, but it's true. We essentially have a choice of three parties, one of which has screwed us over the past decade and a half, one of which will screw us over until we remember what idiots they are and vote them out again and one that we just don't know.

Yes, i am saying literally that 'it's worth a try'.

I would love to agree with you, but the Lib Dem's policies on Trident and nuclear power, as well as some of their party's desire to 'soak the rich' make them unelectable in my eyes.

Incidentally, i remember you saying you looked up to Thatcher *spits*?

She was what was needed at the time, and she did some clearly needed things. That doesn't mean that I support everything she did, but much of what she is blamed for actually involved correcting previous mistakes rather than anything else (see the mining industry et al).

Look at it in comparison to the situation now. When cuts are made after the election, is it going to be the fault of those making the cuts, or those who committed to overspending in the first place?

@Dante: That's not equality, that's clearly in favor of keeping the rich rich and the poor poor. One person living in a mansion surrounded by servants and another struggling to keep a roof above their head are not treated as equals. But they are.

Which is why fixed percentage based systems with a healthy allowance are the fairest system.