Electric cars, why are some of their ranges so poor?

NeilF · 4 May 2010 at 13:49

So we have the super duper sporty Teslar Type S reporting 300 miles per charge, where as the Nissan Leaf , which is designed to be far more sedate, can only manage 100 miles per charge, which to be honest makes it difficult to live with!?

Until these things can manage 200+ mpc (miles per charge), people aren't going to like them. Plus we need plenty of stations with quick charge facilities so if you need to do a 300 mile journey, you can actually do it!

Mr Jack · 4 May 2010 at 14:00

It boils down to battery cost and weight. The higher costs of the Teslas means better battery tech means longer ranges.

LiE · 4 May 2010 at 14:03

Doesn't the Teslar have a battery equivalent to 1500 laptop batteries?

Edit:

The Tesla Roadster battery pack is comprised of about 6800 of these 18650 cells, and the entire
pack has a mass of about 450kg.

http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/TeslaRoadsterBatterySystem.pdf

NeilF · 4 May 2010 at 14:08

msm722 said:
Doesn't the Teslar have a battery equivalent to 1500 laptop batteries?

Edit:

http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/TeslaRoadsterBatterySystem.pdf

Just such a damn shame the batteries are the weakness, and we don't seem to be able to come up with a more efficient storage system...

Django x2 · 4 May 2010 at 14:13

Where is Iron Man when you need him!!!

NeilF · 4 May 2010 at 14:19

Lucero said:
Where is Iron Man when you need him!!!

Reportedly at a cinema - I'm checking tonight!

daz · 4 May 2010 at 14:22

The new Tesla family sized car looks excellent, and will come available with different sized battery packs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S

For popping to the shops etc (e.g. 100 miles per week) it would mean that even with a 120-150 mile range you only have to charge once a week, which for most people would be fine. Electric cars are at the most efficient for the type of journeys that petrol cars are worst at (stop-start city traffic, short journeys) so I think they will be a good option for a lot of people once the cost comes down.

gurusan · 4 May 2010 at 14:27

heavy failcars. combustion = win

jamief · 4 May 2010 at 14:30

NeilFawcett said:
So we have the super duper sporty Teslar Type S reporting 300 miles per charge, where as the Nissan Leaf , which is designed to be far more sedate, can only manage 100 miles per charge, which to be honest makes it difficult to live with!?

Until these things can manage 200+ mpc (miles per charge), people aren't going to like them. Plus we need plenty of stations with quick charge facilities so if you need to do a 300 mile journey, you can actually do it!

It is a Tesla.

I would imagine that we'll eventually see a standardised battery format (hopefully), and you'll simply swap out your one for a fully charged one at the station.

The ~100 mile range probably isn't a huge issue for most commuters. If they need longer ranges, they pay more for a bigger battery.

Amp34 · 4 May 2010 at 14:31

NeilFawcett said:
Just such a damn shame the batteries are the weakness, and we don't seem to be able to come up with a more efficient storage system...

You mean something like Hydrogen...

daz said:
The new Tesla family sized car looks excellent, and will come available with different sized battery packs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S

For popping to the shops etc (e.g. 100 miles per week) it would mean that even with a 120-150 mile range you only have to charge once a week, which for most people would be fine. Electric cars are at the most efficient for the type of journeys that petrol cars are worst at (stop-start city traffic, short journeys) so I think they will be a good option for a lot of people once the cost comes down.

Makes sense. However most people don't actually need to drive on those journeys, instead of selling them an electric car which arguably is just as polluting (during manufacturing) get them to walk/cycle or use public transport.

Amp34 · 4 May 2010 at 14:33

jamief said:
It is a Tesla.

I would imagine that we'll eventually see a standardised battery format (hopefully), and you'll simply swap out your one for a fully charged one at the station.

The ~100 mile range probably isn't a huge issue for most commuters. If they need longer ranges, they pay more for a bigger battery.

If electric cars are going to get anywhere near mainstream I agree, there would need to be some kind of mechanism to drop the old battery pack out and stick a new one in in a matter of minutes.

daz · 4 May 2010 at 14:33

Amp34 said:
Makes sense. However most people don't actually need to drive on those journeys, instead of selling them an electric car which arguably is just as polluting (during manufacturing) get them to walk/cycle or use public transport.

I live in a village with a bus that comes every 2 hours, even though it's only 2 1/2 miles to the nearest town, that still means I need a car to get to work and to get to the shops to do my weekly shopping etc.

NeilF · 4 May 2010 at 14:33

daz said:
The new Tesla family sized car looks excellent, and will come available with different sized battery packs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S

For popping to the shops etc (e.g. 100 miles per week) it would mean that even with a 120-150 mile range you only have to charge once a week, which for most people would be fine. Electric cars are at the most efficient for the type of journeys that petrol cars are worst at (stop-start city traffic, short journeys) so I think they will be a good option for a lot of people once the cost comes down.

That's a luxury car. It's around $60,000, so no doubt will be £50,000 or more here. Not exactly your average family car.

We need a £15,000 electric car capable of 200 miles (or more)...

Even the Nissan Leaf is priced at over $32,000, so it'll be no doubt well over £20,000 here!!! To be able to do 100 miles per charge? May as well stick with a £12,000 diesel!

daz · 4 May 2010 at 14:35

NeilFawcett said:
That's a luxury car. It's around $60,000, so no doubt will be £50,000 or more here. Not exactly your average family car.

Well no, it's not an "average" car, but that's in development for Tesla. They're starting at the high-end, then eventually they'll be able to implement the same tech on a car costing $20k-30k (Codename "BlueStar"). New technology is always expensive and it will take a while for it to come down in price. Just the same as the first cars were ridiculously expensive.

NeilF · 4 May 2010 at 14:38

daz said:
then eventually they'll be able to implement the same tech on a car costing $20k-30k (Codename "BlueStar").

Still sounds too expensive, especially as after X years (eg: 5-6) you'll no doubt need to replace the entire battery unit?

Amp34 · 4 May 2010 at 14:42

daz said:
I live in a village with a bus that comes every 2 hours, even though it's only 2 1/2 miles to the nearest town, that still means I need a car to get to work and to get to the shops to do my weekly shopping etc.

Then cycle the 2 1/2 miles and take a car with you on the weekly shop. Which is exactly what I was alluding to.

A large proportion of car journeys are not needed. Get rid of those and the trip to the shop once a week is much nicer due to less cars...

(personally I hate buses, smelly and big and if I'd actually need a bus to get anywhere I may as well walk or cycle...)

starfighter · 4 May 2010 at 14:43

They are definitely slowly becoming viable and I am looking forward to it tbh, high performance cars with less maintenance and tiny fuel costs.

Battery tech is so important for that many things these days they are researching it like crazy. As the Tesla shows it is starting to be less about tech and more about cost meaning it is getting closer to a realistic option.

As much as I love the sound, electric cars do have the potential to be better, I like the idea of having a separate motor for each wheel means fully intendant drive for each wheel and a low centre of mavity.

It will be a bit crap at first as they are advancing so quick by the time you buy a 2nd hand one it really will be out of date like computers now and the batteries probably fried and old tech, but once the tech stabilizes it will be good.

NeilF · 4 May 2010 at 14:46

starfighter said:
They are definitely slowly becoming viable and I am looking forward to it tbh, high performance cars with less maintenance and tiny fuel costs.

Battery tech is so important for that many things these days they are researching it like crazy. As the Tesla shows it is starting to be less about tech and more about cost meaning it is getting closer to a realistic option.

As much as I love the sound, electric cars do have the potential to be better, I like the idea of having a separate motor for each wheel means fully intendant drive for each wheel and a low centre of mavity.

It will be a bit crap at first as they are advancing so quick by the time you buy a 2nd hand one it really will be out of date like computers now and the batteries probably fried and old tech, but once the tech stabilizes it will be good.

But if we assume the battery is a third the cost of the vehicle, can you imagine how expensive it might be every X (say 5-6) years to replace it!

BigglesPiP · 4 May 2010 at 14:47

Electric cars aren't bad, just immature. I have plenty of ideas about how I'd like my electric car designed, and nano-capacitors are a requirement.

starfighter · 4 May 2010 at 14:50

NeilFawcett said:
But if we assume the battery is a third the cost of the vehicle, can you imagine how expensive it might be every X (say 5-6) years to replace it!

Do you realise how much battery tech has changed in 20 years, remember those 80s and early 90s mobile phones and laptops.

It probably will be atleast 10 years but still I think electric is the best option compared to hybrid cars, fuel cells and hydrogen. It's just so much more simple (once you get over the battery issue)