Consequentialism is hardly a new concept. Not that I would know how far back it goes back but I know it's in Machiavelli's - The Prince.
US Reveals nuclear aresenal
- Thread starter GJ02
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Consequentialism is hardly a new concept. Not that I would know how far back it goes back but I know it's in Machiavelli's - The Prince.
Of course it is. Sometimes innocent lives have to be taken in order to stop even more from dying, which would have happened if the US had not deployed those nukes.
Never ceases to amaze me how some people can get mixed up enough to think that the country that spent almost a decade murdering and raping its way through China, Burma, Korea, Malaya, The Philippines and many other places is the victim of the big bad country did more than any other to bring it to an end.
I guess there is no limit to historical ignorance.
I guess there is no limit to historical ignorance.
Those pesky Germans, the blitz was a mere fireworks show and V2 rocket just a finale.
The bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima today still stands testament that the destruction man can do in one split second. If the Japs were not so stubborn and surrender like any defeated army it would never of happened. US and Germany both were building Nuke tech and thank god for our sake, the US got their first.
The bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima today still stands testament that the destruction man can do in one split second. If the Japs were not so stubborn and surrender like any defeated army it would never of happened. US and Germany both were building Nuke tech and thank god for our sake, the US got their first.
Caporegime
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Problem being the women and children in the cities weren't the ones doing that, it was the armies. Though many soliders were in town, why not systematically nuke a few islands with their biggest armies on then threatened to move to the mainland with the next bomb. They would have surrended, with a large death toll, but it would have been a smaller number and mostly made up of those that had commited attrocities.
But many people suggest that infact Japan were days away from surrendering anyway and that the bombing was completely unnecessary. Though now, the bombing serves to stop others risking an attack. While blowing up a nuke on a island with 5k soldiers on, or a few lizards(that will later mutate from the radiation into monsters) wouldn't have the same effect in scaring the population or scaring other nations into not risking the same fate.
Either way, right now nukes serve a pretty important peace keeping purpose in scaring the living crap out of the big super powers from going after each others oil and land.
Whats to stop China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Germany(you know they harbour some ill will deep down
) and Japan from banding together to get rid of America? The fact that the US has enough nukes to destroy every major city in EACH of those countries. If they had 5, the leaders of those countries would get together, hide in a bunker launch nukes and 90% of their total land would be left after the US's nukes exploded because 5 wouldn't be enough.Total destruction is what countries who want to start a full on war with the USA face, the threat of thousands of nukes ready to go, is required in this day and age.
Total destruction is pointless, lets face no matter who you are you have land, you have rare finite resource, bombing the country is only going to slow down or wipe out the need for the resource, look at the birth defects that come from radiation, would you want to send 1000s of people to a country to clean up and take the resources thats why WW2 was so successful in a war, countries making weapons, making kit, hence all the bombing of cities, take out the back bone, sinking ships in the ocean, attacking bases that are far away from the war front (Norway) do it now and a war would be pointless in terms of the winners and loser living a decent life, least after WW2 the earth was right for rebuilding.
I am not just talking about oil, all elements we need to make the things we take for granted.
I am not just talking about oil, all elements we need to make the things we take for granted.
This might be kneejerk but I saw an old photo of a baby on the end of a Japanese Bayonet. The Japanese Empire got off lightly at the end of WW2 IMO.
They were Evil and Barbarous. In some respects they outshone the Nazis in Barbarity.
They were Evil and Barbarous. In some respects they outshone the Nazis in Barbarity.
Someone had to drop the bomb first .Let us be thankful it happened the way it did....
No consolation for the lives lost on that day and the families that lost loved ones but a pretty big one for the rest of the worlds population.
No consolation for the lives lost on that day and the families that lost loved ones but a pretty big one for the rest of the worlds population.
Nanjing Massacre lets face it, they took it to whole new level but every army did it, Russian are famous for it, German women said "better to have a American/Brit on your head than a Russian on your belly" meaning rather be killed by a bomb than raped.
Soldato
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Conventional bombing raids (per mission) killed far more people. Just look at the fire bombing missions.
This was a world war.
Soldato
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The Japanese started the war with a cowardly surprise attack on the USA., tortured our prisoners etc. I am not saying that makes it right but both sides did some nasty stuff. I believe Britain specifically targeted civilian locations in Germany as it took longer to make people than weapons.
The fact that the Japansese didn't surrender after the first bomb shows how determined they were. Surrender isn't something that happens in Japan and so a full invasion would have cost a lot of lives too.
So yes they have used it but if ever there was a case for using one a World war is it.
Nowadays, any leader of a backwards nation can make or buy a nuke and hold the world to ransom. It is just too much power for one person. Kim Jon Il wasn't elected democratically and can just sit in his bunker with his luxuries, nuke the world and not care about his people getting nuked back.
We don't want an even crazier version of North Korea on our hands.
Associate
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I highly recommend you read the memo written by Lieutenant Commander Arthur McCollum in 1940. It lays out a very clear 8 step plan for provoking Japan into attacking the US:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/McCollum/index.html
Roosevelt implemented all of these procedures and they got what they wanted. They wanted a piece of the second world war from the get go and there was NO "surprise attack", the US were fully aware of what was coming.
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Soldato
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I agree that it wasn't exactly a surprise and tbh it was kind of a good thing as it finally gave the USA a reason to fight and got them into the war on our side, but still, declare war first you dirty Japs.
Remember, they had allied with Hitler and were attacking China.
Remember, they had allied with Hitler and were attacking China.
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Did we set out to intentionally kill so many as to utterly decimate the enemy's sheer will to resist or to disrupt the enemies industry and ability to wage war? (strategic targeted bombing)
Its about intention and purpose.
Hold on ive just realised youve said that conventional bombing raids per mission killed far more people - say what????? wow ok which one killed 100,000 + people?
Even the Dresden bombings as dreadful as they were do not approach the scale of wholesale destruction and death caused by using WMDS on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. (both short term, longterm and environmentally wide-ranging)
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The Japanese could always have not attacked Pearl harbor in 1941 ?
Did the Japanese have such reservations when they worked, starved and beat Allies POWs to death ?
Hiroshima and Nagasaki put an end to the most destructive conflict Humanity has ever known.
War is a filthy business on all sides my friend.
Soldato
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No nukes and we face an other world war. As to the use of the atomic bombs in japan i fully agree with it. The Japanesse will to fight had to be crushed both of its army and people. I just wish people would get off their high horses on nukes.