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Why Is Nvidia So Nasty To ATI?

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Why does Nvidia pay software companys to make games run crap on ATI?

Why are they so nasty about the Physx crack?

As far as I no ATI does not do any of this on there games, EG: Dirt 2 runs better on Nvidia!, Just!
 
ATI is just taking the "moral high ground" because they can't compete with nVidia toe to toe with developer relationships... if they had more clout they'd be just as quick to try and put the competition at a disadvantage.

That said I'm not aware of nVidia directly paying developers to make games run crap on ATI.
 
ATI uses developer relations to play politics, I wish more people could see it.

For all their faults nVidia does do a lot to support developers and put a lot of resources out their in return for getting their logo slapped on a product, they even put a lot of effort into supporting smaller projects such as the demo scene and efforts into supporting linux where the returns would be quite limited, whereas ATI just turn their noses up.
 
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ATI uses developer relations to play politics, I wish more people could see it.

For all their faults nVidia does do a lot to support developers and put a lot of resources out their in return for getting their logo slapped on a product, they even put a lot of effort into supporting smaller projects such as the demo scene and efforts into supporting linux where the returns would be quite limited, whereas ATI just turn their noses up.

The reason why more people don't see it is because its not as you portray it because both use developer relations to play politics, its just that NV has a bigger budget & brag more about it & NV really knows how to brag.
 
ATI is just taking the "moral high ground" because they can't compete with nVidia toe to toe with developer relationships... if they had more clout they'd be just as quick to try and put the competition at a disadvantage.

That said I'm not aware of nVidia directly paying developers to make games run crap on ATI.

Until ATI are in that position then you don't know that for sure.
And the default well everyone in that position would do the same is just an excuse in justifying there actions, well if i don't then someone else will & that is area were I'm hugely respected because I'm put in that position weekly & choose not to the same.
 
ATI developer relations is much stronger now and we can expect a lot more games endorsed by ATI, they have already been tied in with the first DX11 games alien v predator and Dirt2 so we can expect even bigger things from their developer relations program.

I think it's fairly well accepted Nvidia are out to make any games they are associated with to run not as well on ATI cards, this could be poorly implemented physx on the CPU titles or games with features disabled for ATI cards which would run no problem on ATI, this is what has gave Nvidia a bad name in a lot of people minds.

In contrast ATI is open to all consumers and any features they help to develop that is introduced in a game would readily be available to Nvidia owners. Example being stalker clearsky where they helped introduce MSAA in clearsky for DX 10.1 as at the time the games deferred rendering engine was not compatible with MSAA, now they could have just left DX 10 out and alienate all Nvidia owners but no they went and gave the clearsky developer code to do MSAA whilst running in DX10 as well.
 
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They don't they pay developers to make them run well on NVidia cards, ATI just expect developers to do all the work for them.

That's your opinion and not fact. As said ATI DX11 support has been great and the momentum they have gained from the success of their 5000 cards will push them on to get in bed with more developers but not at the cost of performance or features to Nvidia cards.
 
Why does Nvidia pay software companys to make games run crap on ATI?

Why are they so nasty about the Physx crack?

As far as I no ATI does not do any of this on there games, EG: Dirt 2 runs better on Nvidia!, Just!

Its just how Nvidia operate nowadays. They seem to have this mind set that hurting the competition is a better option than beating them with improved hardware technology. I personally think all they are doing is damaging the PC games industry and playing into the hands of the console makers.
 
They don't they pay developers to make them run well on NVidia cards, ATI just expect developers to do all the work for them.

This is rubbish, the same few Nvidia people just try to give the impression AMD don't care, or try.

Its fairly simple, Nvidia had the bigger market share, far more money and could pay for both more support staff to send to these companies and more money to pump into the developers.

Fact is when Nvidia give a developer a couple mil to support their game more, to let their programmers help "optimise" the code for their hardware, its not that AMD don't try or expect anything, they didn't have the money to pay as much as Nvidia did and its that simple, cash, Nvidia had more and bought more titles.

AMD has for years had teams out, but if Nvidia are paying dev's for 2/3rds of the main games coming out in a year, is it worth AMD having a team twice as big as Nvidia's to sit around and do nothing all year? no, its a business, no one throws money away and Nvidia's money brought with it good returns.

But the end of the day developer "relations" was nothing more than whose the bigger spender.

Nvidia profits have tanked, Nvidia's team has been reduced and their spending cut, and quite obviously the number of games they've been involved in has been cut aswell, with several fairly high profile titles being taken over(and improved quite significantly) by AMD's team.

As more dev's aren't bought by Nvidia, theres more room for AMD to work in, and more money for them to spend.

As for Rroff's claims they would do the same, other than AMD specifically stating they would never do so, PUBLICALLY, unlike Nvidia, they've not locked ANYTHING out in multiple titles they could have already.

Is DX11 not working in Dirt 2 for Nvidia? no, do any of the main dx11 games block a single feature out from Nvidia cards, no. So really theres your proof right there.


Most of what Nvidia do isn't "nasty" but paying to optimise for their hardware, fair enough, except when it blocks out developement on other platforms its more of a grey area/borderline wrong but not type situation. As for blocking known AA paths, crippling THEIR OWN HARDWARE in the presense of AMD cards, well, that is nasty, wrong, entirely stupid and frankly, petty as hell. The disabling Physx when an AMD card is present is amongst the dumbest things they've done of late. Considering the bad feeling and multiple reviewers commenting on its stupidity, while encouraging zero sales due to the timing(5xxx series spankingthe gt200b and Fermi not being out for months) and the complete lack of must have physx titles that might have persuaded people to pick up a high end Nvidia card over AMD, it was just petty and hurt them more than it helped.
 
Its just how Nvidia operate nowadays. They seem to have this mind set that hurting the competition is a better option than beating them with improved hardware technology. I personally think all they are doing is damaging the PC games industry and playing into the hands of the console makers.

I don't think anything NV/ATI do could hurt/save the PC gaming scene. The PC as a primary development platform is dead outside of MMO's and casual games. It sucks, but that's the truth of it. When EPIC, Id, Crytek etc.. all switch their primary efforts to the consoles it's pretty clear the golden age of PC gaming has come to an end.

We will still get ports of most games, but it doesn't make sense to develop for the PC any more when budgets for AAA titles are so high it's just not worth the risk.
 
As for Rroff's claims they would do the same, other than AMD specifically stating they would never do so, PUBLICALLY, unlike Nvidia, they've not locked ANYTHING out in multiple titles they could have already.

Thats the beauty of politics... they can say what they like publicly... and its not like their past is spotless...

And nVidia have never blocked AA in any title (that I'm aware of).

To demonstrate this point... we have to take 2 games in mind... Batman AA and Mass Effect 2. Both ship on variations of the same engine, both have the same issues with MSAA and deferred shader compatibility and NEITHER have a generic out the box MSAA implementation.

One game (ME2) ships with no AA at all on any vendor the other game (Batman) ships with an nVidia provided implementation for anti-aliasing thats been tested against nVidia cards and is not enabled on unsupported hardware (of any kind - even older nVidia cards that haven't been tested).

Now anyone whos experimented with getting AA to work in Mass Effect 2 (pre driver hacks) will know that getting AA to work under these situations - and theres plenty of threads to document this - has unpredictable and problematic results, what seems to work in one situation can cause extreme performance degredation, artifacts or even crashes in another. So its not suprising that in the case of Batman nVidia only enabled it on tested hardware... should nVidia be responsible for testing on ATI hardware? it would make ATI look irresponsible for suggesting that the nVidia code should just be enabled untested on ATI hardware.

Now with ME2 both, probably due to the fallout of Batman AA, ATI and nVidia forced driver level hacks, after the game had shipped, to enabled AA in this title, which is far from optimal, but it does the job. Now ATI could have approached the developer and said hey we want to help you implement MSAA + defferred shader support in this title as we know how tricky it can be... the game ships with an AA path thats enabled on ATI hardware because its tested but disabled when unsupported hardware is found... its not ATI's job to test on nVidia hardware, did ATI block nVidia from using AA in this title?



What interests me more is why theres no ATI AA path in Batman - did nVidia do the dirty to prevent them getting code in? was it that ATI just couldn't be bothered? or are they that stretched on the developer relations side they couldn't devote resources to it? from the snippets of emails that have been published it would appear that ATI didn't lift a finger even when they had the opportunity but theres unfortunatly nothing conclusive either way.
 
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I don't think anything NV/ATI do could hurt/save the PC gaming scene. The PC as a primary development platform is dead outside of MMO's and casual games. It sucks, but that's the truth of it. When EPIC, Id, Crytek etc.. all switch their primary efforts to the consoles it's pretty clear the golden age of PC gaming has come to an end.

We will still get ports of most games, but it doesn't make sense to develop for the PC any more when budgets for AAA titles are so high it's just not worth the risk.

The PC is a very credible tool and has the potential to become the major gaming system of choice. Really the industry needs some type of summit to set down some guidelines and have everyone pushing in the right direction. Sadly I think it would take a company or two to go under/change leadership before that could happen.

Nvidia need to start doing their bit and stop undermining anyone they consider a threat IMO.
 
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