Which car?

Gaidin109

Gaidin109

Gaidin109

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12 Jul 2009
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Ok, I need a new motor for the Wife,

the choice is between:

1 BMW 320d
2 Audi A5 2.0 TFSI 180/211
3 BMW 520d ?
4 VW Passat CC GT 2.0TDI 170.

Basically she wants something as quick as her Mondeo 2.5v6 Zetec s, but with far superior fuel economy and VED rating. I am open to other options other than those listed above, budget range £25k-£35k

Whats the scores on the doors...
 
If you're buying brand new to save on tax......oh dear.

That's a really odd mix of cars though, maybe narrow down the sort of car she actually wants/needs first
 
Lotus 2-Eleven?

Monaro?

bmw m5?

really.. id get A5 just because i like no other reason.. but i would never buy a BRAND new 20-30k car to save on tax.
 
Not really a weird mix of cars, all family saloon cars.

Had a look at the new Mondeo, the Titanium X?
 
New or a year old, nothing with more than 12000 miles.

Beside the BMW 520, the other cars are all of the same class, so I dont understand why you would say it's an odd mix.

She wants a fast, large, fuel efficent car with low VED. So obviously not a Monaro??? or a M5.

She doesn't like the new mondeo, she's looking toward the large 2+2 coupe rather than a standard family saloon, I already have a Merc so we got that covered.
 
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A5 2.0 TDI sounds about right, big, got the coupe thing going on, they've got all their stopstart etc stuff going on nowadays dont they?
 
The A5 is only a 2+2 if the 2 in the back are kids, is that a problem? If it is, look at the A4 and A5 Sportback 4 door niche-buster from the Audi stable as alternatives, or any of the others you suggested :)

How about an XF 3.0 diesel? New they're right at the top your budget but the spec is pretty generous :)

None of those cars are new, so try to find a 12 month old example :) Either save the cash to cover the greater servicing costs, or spend it on a better spec, your choice
 
It's an odd mix because he has a BMW 320d - a turbodiesel - but an A5 2.0TFSI - a turbo petrol.

What exactly do you want - a diesel or a petrol? Because a BMW 325i would be a better car than a 320d if you don't particularly want a diesel, and IMHO, superior to the 2.0T in the Audi engine wise.

The 2.0TFSI is not going to offer 'far superior fuel economy' to a 2.5 litre Mondeo.

Also, the tax on your Mondeo is only £240 year. I am not sure I really understand the logic in wanting 'far superior VED' and being prepared to spend THIRTY FIVE THOUSAND POUNDS in order to get it. Seriously, on what planet is a 200 quid a year road tax bill a big deal for somebody with a £35,000 car budget? I would go so far as to say that it shouldnt even register on your car choice criteria, really. It's literally nothing.
 
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Any of the above are better than Audi's 1.8T when put in an A5 though :p Yes they did make one, although I suspect (and hope) it was only one (It was a red manual with beige leather if you're interested :p )
 
[TW]Fox;16524497 said:
It's an odd mix because he has a BMW 320d - a turbodiesel - but an A5 2.0TFSI - a turbo petrol.

What exactly do you want - a diesel or a petrol? Because a BMW 325i would be a better car than a 320d if you don't particularly want a diesel, and IMHO, superior to the 2.0T in the Audi engine wise.

The 2.0TFSI is not going to offer 'far superior fuel economy' to a 2.5 litre Mondeo.

Also, the tax on your Mondeo is only £240 year. I am not sure I really understand the logic in wanting 'far superior VED' and being prepared to spend THIRTY FIVE THOUSAND POUNDS in order to get it. Seriously, on what planet is a 200 quid a year road tax bill a big deal for somebody with a £35,000 car budget? I would go so far as to say that it shouldnt even register on your car choice
criteria, really. It's literally nothing.
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42/38mpg in the two TFSI Audi's, compared to 22mpg out of the Mondeo is significant. As is are the emissions of 158/178gkm compared to 242gkm from her mondeo. Diesel or Petrol isn't really a consideration, so it's not relevent.

How much I spend on a car bares no relationship to how much I wish to give the taxman for the priviledge of driving it.

Besides which, if she wanted a Mondeo, she wouldn't have said she definitely didn't want one. She doesn't like it, neither do I. Why would anyone pay 25-28k for a Ford when you can buy better for a little more.

Her current mondeo needs replacing as it is now coming up for 10 years old.
 
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Gaidin109 said:
42/38mpg in the two TFSI Audi's, compared to 22mpg out of the Mondeo is
significant. As is are the emissions of 158/178gkm compared to 242gkm from her mondeo.
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There is no way in a million years would the 2.0 turbo petrol Audi's get even 38mpg on a combined cycle!

I dare say Audi may be claiming that economy, but no way would real world use be anywhere close!
 
Gaidin109 said:
42/38mpg in the two TFSI Audi's, compared to 22mpg out of the Mondeo is significant. As is are the emissions of 158/178gkm compared to 242gkm from her mondeo.
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If you are getting 22mpg from a 2.5 litre Mondeo there is absolutely no way on this earth you are going to get 38mpg from the Audi 2.0TFSI on the same usage profile. It simply wont happen. It will be considerably less economical than that by quite some margin. 22mpg from a 2.5 litre Mondeo suggests most of the usage is around town - where you wont get 40mpg from a 2.0 Turbo Petrol Audi.

You really need to make sure you are calculating this sort of thing properly because you are going to be bitterly dissapointed with the fuel economy if your new car if you are not careful.

How much I spend on a car bares no relationship to how much I wish to give the taxman for the priviledge of driving it.
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Well it does, because it simply doesnt matter compared to other costs involved, does it? It's 200 quid a year, its nothing, especially when you consider a car at the upper end of your budget is going to cost you that £200 every *WEEK* in depreciation. Forget about the road thing, it doesn't matter and most newer cars of the sort you are considering are going to be about the same or less to tax anyway. Just stop thinking about it.

You'll be paying £6000 to the taxman in VAT anyway if you spend £35k on the car ;)

Besides which, if she wanted a Mondeo, she wouldn't have said she definitely didn't want one. She doesn't like it, neither do I. Why would anyone pay 25-28k for a Ford when you can buy better for a little more.
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Errr I'm not suggesting you buy a Mondeo, I certainly wouldnt with your budget!

I think you both need to sit down and work out what type of car you want and what sort of engine it should be powered by first. How many miles does she do a year? How much of a big deal is fuel economy really - does it actually matter or do you simply think it matters?

I certainly wouldnt be chosing between a 320d, a 520d and an A5 2.0TFSI. If these are cars you are interested in you need to be considering:

325i/330i
530i
A5 2.0TFSI (Or 3.2 FSI if they still do it?)

OR

320d, 520d or A5 2.0 TDI.

Or perhaps a bit less economy and a bit more refinement (But still not as economical as a 2.0 diesel nor as refined and quiet as a petrol

330d
530d
A5 3.0 TDI Quattro

These will be stretching the budget if you are buying new, but I'd advise against this anyway as mid £20k's would get an absolutely loaded 12-18 month old example of these better engined variants.

If you can get away without the noisy diesel then great, the petrol cars will be quieter, smoother, more refined and generally more suited to the sort of car you are looking at. But they wont be doing 40mpg around town. At all.
 
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She does a mixture of driving, we live in a rural area so town driving is rare. This what she wants,

Low emissions, decent fuel economy.

No superminis or chav-mobiles (her words not mine), so no ST focus' or VXRs

Sub 9s 0-62 and upward of 140mph so it performs better than her current car.

Must have rear seats a least big enough for two 12 year olds, reasonable boot space.

I know she is leaning toward the 320d Msport BMW or the VW passat CC which I like the look of.

New or a year old isn't important as depreciation is meaningless considering she will keep it for a decade like the Mondy. But no older than 18mths, she wants the latest facelift as well.
 
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I am not sure I'd want to keep any of the modern diesels for a decade. These are all cars which are likely to cost you a disproportionately high amount of money to keep them on the road as they begin to age. Especially the newer ultra-efficient diesel engines - they have a plethora of complex and failure-prone ancillary systems to help them acheive this sort of fuel economy. You need to consider very carefully what you buy if you really do intend to keep this car for 10 years unless you dont mind spending £1500 to get some random eco-crap diesel component replaced on a 7 year old car, for example.

I would give consideration to moving to a 5 year replacement cycle if you absolutely insist on buying a diesel. Buy a 12-18 month old example, keep it until you can no longer get a reasonably priced COMPREHENSIVE warranty from a reputable provider, and then replace it.

I still fail to see why you are so bothered about CO2 emissions. It really doesnt matter - you cant really buy anything in this segment that qualifies for the huge levels of taxation so really whatever you buy is probably going to cost less to tax than the Mondeo anyway. I really wouldnt worry about emissions, they are simply not important.

All of the cars mentioned so far with the possible exception of the 1.8TFSI Audi will do 0-60 in under 9 seconds. The 320d is particularly quick for a 4 cylinder diesel, though obviously the 330i and similar will be considerably faster - infact, compared to what she wants and is used to they are very fast cars.

How many miles a year do you do? I still stand by the opinion that if you get 22mpg from a Mondeo 2.5 you will not be getting 40mpg from a 2.0TFSI Audi A5. Infact I'd suggest you'll likely see less than 30mpg, in all honesty. The thing is dependant on your annual mileage this probably wont really matter anyway.

Everyone thinks they need amazing fuel economy but sit down do the sums because you probably don't.

The car that fits your requirements (Your requirements as stated, mind, I still feel personally you've misintepreted what it is you really need) the best is the BMW 320d - very low emissions, 0-60 in 7.something seconds, and your best shot at decent MPG. It is, however, as mentioned above, absolutely loaded with things like automaticly operating vents on the radiator grille, stop-start system, high pressure direct injection, a regenerating diesel particulate filter - all of these are going to be 4 figure bills when, and not if, they fail. This becomes a REAL concern when you are planning to keep a car until its 10 years old. And most of this stuff is now present on all similar cars, as well.
 
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She does around 7-8k max a year. I think the low emissions is an environmental thing for her. It's not a financial consideration.

Aren't the Efficent Dynamics stuff on both the diesels and petrols in the BMW range?, so why would that make any difference to the respective lifespan?

I'm concerned that BMW diesels need changing after 5 years, especially as they have a 5 year, 60000 mile service interval option. She wouldn't do 30k in that time.
 
Gaidin109 said:
She does around 7-8k max a year. I think the low emissions is an environmental thing for her. It's not a financial consideration.
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In which case there is absolutely no need at all for a diesel and I urge you not to consider one - this is prime territory for something like a 325i or the 2.0TFSI Audi and simply ignoring the fuel economy - on a monetary basis you wont notice the difference and the emissions are well under 200g/km anyway.

Aren't the Efficent Dynamics stuff on both the diesels and petrols in the BMW range?, so why would that make any difference to the respective lifespan?
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Stop-Start is only found on 4 cylinder engines, so 325i or similar wont have it. Only the diesels have the more complex injection systems, regenerating particulate filters, etc etc. The DPF's have been known to cause particular issues on VW/Audi cars which do not do large mileages - they need long distance trips to regenerate the DPF. They do not suit low mileage users at all.


I'm concerned that BMW diesels need changing after 5 years,
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They dont NEED changing at all, but beyond this point it is my personal opinion that such a car (Not just BMW but everyone - Volkswagen and Audi included) becomes a financial liability rather than a money saving device.

especially as they have a 5 year, 60000 mile service interval option.
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No they don't - the service interval is variable with a maximum time between services of 2 years. You are slightly confused with the fact BMW offer a 5 year 60,000 service PACK, which simply includes all servicing costs incurred during this time.

Personally I feel you should look to purchase a 12-18 month old facelift BMW 325i or similar. You'll appreciate the smooth power delivery, the silent engine at idle, etc etc on your relatively low mileage and I'd wager it lasting the 10 years with lower overall repair costs than a complex modern turbodiesel. Alternatively, I'm sure there is an Audi equivilent if she prefers the Audi's. I wouldnt bother with the Passat, why have a Volkswagen when its clear you can afford an Audi :)
 
Gaidin109 said:
She does around 7-8k max a year. I think the low emissions is an environmental thing for her. It's not a financial consideration.

Aren't the Efficent Dynamics stuff on both the diesels and petrols in the BMW range?, so why would that make any difference to the respective lifespan?

I'm concerned that BMW diesels need changing after 5 years, especially as they have a 5 year, 60000 mile service interval option. She wouldn't do 30k in that time.
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Earlier this year VW wouldn't sell you a MK6 Bluemotion Golf because one of the particulate filters was made of cheese and prone to rapid failure. No such problems on the slightly less eco, standard, 1.6 TDI in which less sophisticated filters were used. So there is some evidence to support Fox's claim :)

As Fox said, 320d, or if swoopy styling is important the 2.0TDI A5 or maybe the Jag XF 3.0D
 
Unfortunately the facelift on the Coupe is literally box fresh - March 2010 it was announced.

However it didn't really change much on the M Sport - new front and rear lights and ridiculous EU safety legislation forced elephant ear wingmirrors are about your lot.

And it's not as if the rear lights on the pre facelift Coupe were bad, infact many think they looked better before the facelift - they are lovely CELIS LED's and look very imposing at night.

The saloon facelift was October 2008, though, so plenty of chance for a facelift nearly new example of that. Room in the back of the Coupe is a tad tight, but other than that I think they are absolutely excellent cars and are right near the top of my next car shortlist.

The 325i is actually a 3 litre engine but in a lower state of tune than the 330i. If you can find a 330i, you'll find it delivers virtually the same fuel economy and emissions yet offers even more performance. However at your end of the market (Not so at the other end, which is why this next bit will be against what I usually say) there are often pretty big savings buying a 325i over a 330i and as you've spotted it's not as if the 325i is a slouch.

Make sure you get one with Navigation, though - Nav in a 3 Series adds the simply excellent iDrive system which gives you almost complete control over most aspects of the car - anything from the time the lights stay on after you switch the engine off to how many miles you have left on your brake pads.

The 6 cylinder petrol engines also work really with BMW's autobox if thats your bag. An auto 325i is a joy to drive around town. Smooth, quiet, quick when you need it, and a dream in traffic. And when you sit at the lights it doesnt go dagadagadagdagda like the 59 plate 320d Auto I had last year did ;)
 
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