what's the bible like to read???
Does God cause suffering??
- Thread starter icysniper
- Start date
what's the bible like to read???
I didn't say he did. I in fact was incredibly precise not to make any moral judgement at all. I answered the question "Does God cause suffering?" using the bible as evidence.
So every first born in Egypt was all bad all the time? Even the ones just born? So everyone prior to the flood was all bad all the time? Even the ones just born?
Suggest all your like, there is little proof of it and it would also beggar belief that all the inhabitants were so totally depraved, especially the children.
He killed innocents to prove a point. He caused suffering.
Isn't it a standard thing to not negotiate with terrorists? Not give in to their demands?
Moot point. He caused suffering. Question answered in the positive.
Well in fact God didn't cause anything bad to happen to Job. It all started as a challenge that Satan made to God, saying "Job only worships you because you've given him everything a man could want. I bet if you take these things away from him he'll curse you to your face. No one would worship you if you didn't bless them as a result."
So God said to Satan "Do what you like to him, but don't kill him. We'll see if your theory is correct."
And then Satan did a whole bunch of craptastic things to Job. When he was done, and Job hadn't cracked, the Bible says God gave him back everything he'd had before and more.
And of course all his family that were killed still have the chance of being resurrected by God in the future.
So God didn't cause Job's suffering. I'd brush up a bit on Biblical accounts before you attempt to use them in arguments.
the KJV is just silly but some of the better study bibles are much better they have large note sections for each page to help with translations (not all phrases can be translated exactly, which is one reason why the KJV is very inaccurate) and to help link it in with past bits and explanations of what where then everyday terms or phrases but which don't make sense or need explaining to day.
Even then it's not that gripping really, but the new testament is much more readable i find.
Not all suffering atribbuted to God is due to human free will as has already been discussed. Keep up.
You're right giving a man a gun and saying go for it murder the lot of them is morally fine especially if you have the power to prevent it.
Simplistic what about natural events such as disease and tsunami's. Surely as the creator of such events there would be a responsibility.
There is also a big presumption here also that suffering is a bad thing. It may well be a necessary component - which is another avenue worth exploring.
Death is not the end. You all seem to be forgetting this.
Why do you think so many are happy to die instead of renounce their faith? They believe that God has power over life and death. Those who die in innocence (including children & the unborn) - regardless of who kills them - can be resurrected to life.
When you look at it that way it isn't odd at all. Their deaths are only temporary.
Prove it and I will agree with you... However that is still completely and utterly immaterial to the question at hand which is "Does God cause suffering?". The bible is very clear on this, yes, God does cause suffering.
God can cause suffering, this is in extreme cases but there are still some, and yes they are mainly in America.
I've read of few cases in which parents decide not to take their children to the hospital because they believe god will heal their child instead of seeking the real medical treatment they need. In these cases the children normally die, which is due to the belief and the falsified faith that the parents are given. Obviously this is an extreme case and does not happen every day, but it still does happen. There is also cases of people turning down treatments because they believe god will help them through illness, and they disregard real things which can save their lives like operations and treatments.
Most people who believe in god are more comforted by the fact 1 day, when they die, they will be "with god". This takes away 1 of the fears that every human being has, in this aspect the belief in god is completely acceptable, because it's not easy for anyone to accept they will die, and if belief in a god can help them accept what's going to happen then so be it. But the original question of "Does god cause suffering?" the answer is "Yes" but only in extreme cases and it's not in an every day scenario that the belief in him would.
I've read of few cases in which parents decide not to take their children to the hospital because they believe god will heal their child instead of seeking the real medical treatment they need. In these cases the children normally die, which is due to the belief and the falsified faith that the parents are given. Obviously this is an extreme case and does not happen every day, but it still does happen. There is also cases of people turning down treatments because they believe god will help them through illness, and they disregard real things which can save their lives like operations and treatments.
Most people who believe in god are more comforted by the fact 1 day, when they die, they will be "with god". This takes away 1 of the fears that every human being has, in this aspect the belief in god is completely acceptable, because it's not easy for anyone to accept they will die, and if belief in a god can help them accept what's going to happen then so be it. But the original question of "Does god cause suffering?" the answer is "Yes" but only in extreme cases and it's not in an every day scenario that the belief in him would.
We are given skills and objectives to use in life, tools if you like. We have free will. I don't see it being the great spirit in the sky's fault. However, coming down here to learn and experience some of the physical world's lessons, is largely, pre-determined imo. Just the way I feel. Things happen way too easily to always coincidentally fall in to place. 'Things usually work out in the end eh?' 
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 May 2006
- Posts
- 5,786
Not really.
Another example of athiests completely missing the point of what god is, or more precisely, what his existence implies.
That isn't really God causing suffering, that is peoples belief in God causing suffering.
How about the cases where the parents have faith in science and cause unnecessary suffering as they keep putting their child through operation after operation because they will not let go because they see nothing but emptiness on the other side. I can tell you I see this far more at work than the potential scenario you have highlighted.
Well, to answer the bigger question "why does God permit suffering today", you'll see it's largely the same answer.
Satan again said to God, "humans don't need you to rule over them. they can do better on their own". Or words to that effect.
Thus we are in the period granted to us to govern ourselves. In this period, God will not even reveal his presence. At the end of this period, I think the answer will be pretty conclusive. Not only will it be conclusive, but it will not need to be repeated. The answer will be made clear for all time.
Over the last few decades, we've seen no evidence that humans are capable of governing themselves in their own best interest. In fact in many parts of the world terror, poverty, disease, corruption, are the norm. We're luckier here.
However even the west has been responsible for wars and atrocities, and we still have a system where inequality is normal; a system where in general we do not care for anyone but ourselves and our immediate family.
At the end of this period of self-governence, the Bible promises God's own government will replace all of ours. The Bible makes it clear that "it does not belong to Earthling man even to direct his own step."
The fact is, we were never designed to rule ourselves. We were designed to need God's benevolent rulership, and we've been doing a pretty useless job without him.
I know, but it's due to god that they have the belief, which is why in these such cases they turn down treatments.
God can't have a direct impact on a human, the only link between a god and humans is a belief in him, and if this belief shrouds and clouds your judgement of what should be done at what moments then it can end up with people suffering in the process.
legitimately curious here. When exactly did the period of us 'not being ruled by god' start? I always figured it happened in general with the story of being banished from eden but..god always seemed to have some role in events in the biblical stories.
So when exactly did god like...stop doing stuff? Are you saying that it's this challenge from satan that started it?
Last edited:
Still not God though.
That really isn't backed up by most Christian denominations. Most of them still believe that God can and does intervene.