UFC 113: Machida vs. Shogun 2

[Robert1986]

becasue hes british, and a good fighter... that knee may not of been intentional and it did not hit, can you realy blame him for having a cheap shot at kosc though? the guy is an absolute *****! daley semed abit warey of kosc take downs when he was on his feet i dont know why he did not throw more punches! and to be honest i wish he had of nocked kosc out!!

lol what? Being a Brit has nothing to do with it.

Doesn't matter if the knee hit or not, he was downed. Rules are rules. Once the bell rings, the fight is no longer sanctioned and if he hits him after that, its assault.

Daley is more of an idiot than Kos for trying to sucker punch him.

 

[chronic86]

lol what? Being a Brit has nothing to do with it.

Doesn't matter if the knee hit or not, he was downed. Rules are rules. Once the bell rings, the fight is no longer sanctioned and if he hits him after that, its assault.

Daley is more of an idiot than Kos for trying to sucker punch him.

what??... you asked me how i can support daley yeah?, so how does him not being a brit having nothing to do with me supporting him when i just clearly said i support him becasue hes a brit lol.

 

[Robert1986]

what??... you asked me how i can support daley yeah?, so how does him not being a brit having nothing to do with me supporting him when i just clearly said i support him becasue hes a brit lol.

Oh, I misread your post. sorry.

So you defend him for what he did just because he is British?

 

[The IPB]

I'm glad he has gone, another overrated British fighter. This is MMA not K1, you will only get so far with just standup.

An what he did after the fight there is no excuse for.

 

[The Running Man]

it was pretty bad, the ref got him good though.

What you learn tonight?

Always protect myself.

Whats the rule?

Always protect myself.

 

[NokkonWud]

What's funny about it all is that Daley got that 'one punch' chance that he shut up none-stop about and still didn't put his opponent on the ground, his opponent wasn't even expecting it.

What does strike me about some peoples opinions here is that they're the kind of MMA fans I really, really cannot stand. If you want to watch standing fighting, then watch K1, Boxing and other sports of that ilk, because quite frankly, MMA is beyond your simple minds. People criticise him for 'only' using Wrestling. Well Daley 'only' used stand-up, so how is that not as bad? The simple fact is that what Koscheck was effecting, within the rules and demands respect because his wrestling really is as good as anyone else's in that weight division.

I hate people who criticize fighters for ground based combat, it's all part of the game, why would someone take the risk of standing up, getting knocked out, therefore losing the fight and in this case, a starring role in the next The Ultimate Fighter and a title shot.

Anyone who believes his sacking was harsh, you're wrong. It wasn't. It was unprofessional and very dangerous. These people hit hard and on an unexpecting opponent anything could have happened. You see people lose at every show you see and they don't suddenly go lashing out afterwards. Paul Daley was annoyed, but that's no excuse, he had his chance to do his job but was outclassed from the first minute until the last, you know there is something wrong when you do something and make Josh Koscheck look a class act.

The fight was a complete mis-match anyway, Koscheck is world class, Daley was nothing more than a guy who was in the right place at the right time, he beat Martin Kampmann who is just a filler in the weight division and Dustin Hazelett who wasn't as smart as Josh Koscheck and stood with him, if he'd taken Daley to the ground he would have embarrassed him.

Quite frankly, Dana White reacted quickly and correctly. The UFC is better off without idiots and none rounded fighters like Paul Daley in it.

 

[Robert1986]

If you're going to sucker punch someone, do it right.

 

[Xordium]

What does strike me about some peoples opinions here is that they're the kind of MMA fans I really, really cannot stand. If you want to watch standing fighting, then watch K1, Boxing and other sports of that ilk, because quite frankly, MMA is beyond your simple minds. People criticise him for 'only' using Wrestling. Well Daley 'only' used stand-up, so how is that not as bad? The simple fact is that what Koscheck was effecting, within the rules and demands respect because his wrestling really is as good as anyone else's in that weight division.

I hate people who criticize fighters for ground based combat, it's all part of the game, why would someone take the risk of standing up, getting knocked out, therefore losing the fight and in this case, a starring role in the next The Ultimate Fighter and a title shot.

Maybe because we actually love MMA and want to see a fight with you know a bit of excitement (obviously bar the oscar performance, illegal knee and assault). My favourite part of MMA fighting is the ground game but Kos's ground game is not interesting. Give me a fighter who actively - well you know goes to strike or submit someone then I might actually like them a great deal more for it. A bit harsh you say you "hate" us for having that view - I mean we could say if you want to watch one bloke lie on top of another and wriggle around for 15 mins then watch gay porn

 

[rypt]

I hate people who criticize fighters for ground based combat, it's all part of the game, why would someone take the risk of standing up, getting knocked out, therefore losing the fight and in this case, a starring role in the next The Ultimate Fighter and a title shot.

We criticize fighters for taking to the ground but then doing no damage and being unable to finish it.
That fight was BORING, were they standing up and trading slugs then it could have at least finished in some proper way.

 

[Zip]

If you're going to sucker punch someone, do it right.

What made him do that?

 

[hurfdurf]

What's funny about it all is that Daley got that 'one punch' chance that he shut up none-stop about and still didn't put his opponent on the ground, his opponent wasn't even expecting it.

What does strike me about some peoples opinions here is that they're the kind of MMA fans I really, really cannot stand. If you want to watch standing fighting, then watch K1, Boxing and other sports of that ilk, because quite frankly, MMA is beyond your simple minds. People criticise him for 'only' using Wrestling. Well Daley 'only' used stand-up, so how is that not as bad? The simple fact is that what Koscheck was effecting, within the rules and demands respect because his wrestling really is as good as anyone else's in that weight division.

I hate people who criticize fighters for ground based combat, it's all part of the game, why would someone take the risk of standing up, getting knocked out, therefore losing the fight and in this case, a starring role in the next The Ultimate Fighter and a title shot.

Anyone who believes his sacking was harsh, you're wrong. It wasn't. It was unprofessional and very dangerous. These people hit hard and on an unexpecting opponent anything could have happened. You see people lose at every show you see and they don't suddenly go lashing out afterwards. Paul Daley was annoyed, but that's no excuse, he had his chance to do his job but was outclassed from the first minute until the last, you know there is something wrong when you do something and make Josh Koscheck look a class act.

The fight was a complete mis-match anyway, Koscheck is world class, Daley was nothing more than a guy who was in the right place at the right time, he beat Martin Kampmann who is just a filler in the weight division and Dustin Hazelett who wasn't as smart as Josh Koscheck and stood with him, if he'd taken Daley to the ground he would have embarrassed him.

Quite frankly, Dana White reacted quickly and correctly. The UFC is better off without idiots and none rounded fighters like Paul Daley in it.

A good post

 

[^TANK^]

Maybe because we actually love MMA and want to see a fight with you know a bit of excitement (obviously bar the oscar performance, illegal knee and assault). My favourite part of MMA fighting is the ground game but Kos's ground game is not interesting. Give me a fighter who actively - well you know goes to strike or submit someone then I might actually like them a great deal more for it. A bit harsh you say you "hate" us for having that view - I mean we could say if you want to watch one bloke lie on top of another and wriggle around for 15 mins then watch gay porn

Agreed.

 

[Robert1986]

What made him do that?

He said he was bi-polar. He is actually in jail right now for murder. :/

The guy that got hit received a broken jaw.

 

[roid]

What does strike me about some peoples opinions here is that they're the kind of MMA fans I really, really cannot stand. If you want to watch standing fighting, then watch K1, Boxing and other sports of that ilk, because quite frankly, MMA is beyond your simple minds. People criticise him for 'only' using Wrestling. Well Daley 'only' used stand-up, so how is that not as bad? The simple fact is that what Koscheck was effecting, within the rules and demands respect because his wrestling really is as good as anyone else's in that weight division.

As good as GSP? Give me a break.

I hate people who criticize fighters for ground based combat, it's all part of the game, why would someone take the risk of standing up, getting knocked out, therefore losing the fight and in this case, a starring role in the next The Ultimate Fighter and a title shot.

We're not criticising him for taking Daley down, we're criticising him for taking him down and then doing mostly nothing with it. It was boring! In my opinion some of the most exciting stuff happens on the ground, kind of like a chess match of moves and counter moves. But it just didn't happen like that.

Anyone who believes his sacking was harsh, you're wrong. It wasn't. It was unprofessional and very dangerous. These people hit hard and on an unexpecting opponent anything could have happened. You see people lose at every show you see and they don't suddenly go lashing out afterwards. Paul Daley was annoyed, but that's no excuse, he had his chance to do his job but was outclassed from the first minute until the last, you know there is something wrong when you do something and make Josh Koscheck look a class act.

So your saying that Kos isn't a class act? But you just said his wrestling was up with the best in the div?

The fight was a complete mis-match anyway, Koscheck is world class, Daley was nothing more than a guy who was in the right place at the right time, he beat Martin Kampmann who is just a filler in the weight division and Dustin Hazelett who wasn't as smart as Josh Koscheck and stood with him, if he'd taken Daley to the ground he would have embarrassed him.

So now your saying Kos is world class again? Make your mind up!

Kampmann in my opinion is not a filler, and is a threat both standing and on the ground.

The Hazelett fight ended after 2:24 according to Wiki and I agree that if he had taken Daley to ground he probably would have submitted him. But he didn't and Semtex caught him. I remember being impressed then as Daley had looked really effected by the cut to make weight, he was wobbling on his feet I think.

I'm still amazed nothing has been done about Kos's Oscar winning performance with the non-knee. Obviously not as bad as the after fight swipe by Daley, but equally simulation has no place in MMA if you ask me.

 

[Xordium]

I'm still amazed nothing has been done about Kos's Oscar winning performance with the non-knee. Obviously not as bad as the after fight swipe by Daley, but equally simulation has no place in MMA if you ask me.

I suspect something has been said but when all is said and done the kind of bad guy image that Kos is really making for himself serves Dana well. I suspect most of the MMA fans on this forum are like me and expect:

1/. The fighters to be humble and respectful in the build-up
2/. To acknowledge their opponent by bowing and touching gloves before the fight, stick to rules when fighting (including not whispering sweet nothings in peoples ears)
3/. Not carrying on hitting a obviously unconscious opponent (respect here to Shogun as he knew Machida was out and whilst it is the referees job to stop a fight that referee needs time to react and move - in that partial second one punch can make a big difference to someones brain)
4/. Be gracious in both victory and defeat - acknowledge your opponent again.

It seems to me that this is being lost quite rapidly at the moment. When I started martial arts it was because my father thought a wayward lad who liked fighting might find some self-control and discipline. And he was right. But what I am seeing now more and more in MMA is great fighters but not great martial artists. This is why people respect the likes of Fedor and Machida because the embody something a little but more than kicking someone's head in.

Kos is of course a great fighter/wrestler - his ability to drive through in the takedown has few equals. But he is no great martial artist. For one he is not as rounded as he likes to think (crossing the feet when you have someones back might not be the wisest move against any decent BJJ practitioner) although I do think his standup has got a great deal better - he almost moves like a fencer in his nimbleness. But he will never be a great martial artist irrespective of the holes in his game but purely because of how he portrays himself and the way he acts. And of course even pure wrestlers do well in the UFC as the ruleset does favour them - if you changed the ruleset even slightly you may find things change very quickly. A pity about Kos though I used to quite like him as a fighter.

 

[roid]

I suspect something has been said but when all is said and done the kind of bad guy image that Kos is really making for himself serves Dana well. I suspect most of the MMA fans on this forum are like me and expect:

1/. The fighters to be humble and respectful in the build-up
2/. To acknowledge their opponent by bowing and touching gloves before the fight, stick to rules when fighting (including not whispering sweet nothings in peoples ears)
3/. Not carrying on hitting a obviously unconscious opponent (respect here to Shogun as he knew Machida was out and whilst it is the referees job to stop a fight that referee needs time to react and move - in that partial second one punch can make a big difference to someones brain)
4/. Be gracious in both victory and defeat - acknowledge your opponent again.

It seems to me that this is being lost quite rapidly at the moment. When I started martial arts it was because my father thought a wayward lad who liked fighting might find some self-control and discipline. And he was right. But what I am seeing now more and more in MMA is great fighters but not great martial artists. This is why people respect the likes of Fedor and Machida because the embody something a little but more than kicking someone's head in.

Kos is of course a great fighter/wrestler - his ability to drive through in the takedown has few equals. But he is no great martial artist. For one he is not as rounded as he likes to think (crossing the feet when you have someones back might not be the wisest move against any decent BJJ practitioner) although I do think his standup has got a great deal better - he almost moves like a fencer in his nimbleness. But he will never be a great martial artist irrespective of the holes in his game but purely because of how he portrays himself and the way he acts. And of course even pure wrestlers do well in the UFC as the ruleset does favour them - if you changed the ruleset even slightly you may find things change very quickly. A pity about Kos though I used to quite like him as a fighter.

I agree 100%. Pity we can't thumbs up posts ;]

 

[PermaChanged]

because his wrestling really is as good as anyone else's in that weight division.

 

[Sutters]

Don't worry guys, GSP will just beat him half to death for 5 rounds shortly anyway. Then everything will be right.

 

[NokkonWud]

Maybe because we actually love MMA and want to see a fight with you know a bit of excitement (obviously bar the oscar performance, illegal knee and assault). My favourite part of MMA fighting is the ground game but Kos's ground game is not interesting. Give me a fighter who actively - well you know goes to strike or submit someone then I might actually like them a great deal more for it. A bit harsh you say you "hate" us for having that view - I mean we could say if you want to watch one bloke lie on top of another and wriggle around for 15 mins then watch gay porn

We criticize fighters for taking to the ground but then doing no damage and being unable to finish it.
That fight was BORING, were they standing up and trading slugs then it could have at least finished in some proper way.

I'm not saying it can't be boring, it can be. Personally I don't see Koscheck's ground game as boring whatsoever, it's no less boring than Randy Couture's upright game against the cage, it is technically superb.

The problem lies with the way UFC is scored, I don't believe you need to alter purses in a Pride fashion, I don't think you should be taking fighters outside of their comfort zone and encourage them to 'bang for money.'

The only way to change it up is to judge it differently. Currently bouts are scored and domination, ring aggression and takedowns. Fighters do not get points for defending well or even escaping from being down. Personally I'm all for scoring on this criteria, it's only fair, but with that being the current scoring requirements it made perfect technical sense for Koscheck to simply dominate Daley on the floor rather than attempt savage ground and pound or submission attempts. This definitely suited him more because there is no doubt about it, Koscheck wanted to show Paul Daley up, embarrass him and he did. It was absolutely textbook from him in-line with the UFC's scoring criteria.

 

[Mikoyan]

It was hard seeing Machida getting KO really was I didnt even watch the replay it made me

Daley could have been something now..ruined his whole career..also I think fighters should be penalised if they do fakes..like Kos did otherwise we be getting stuff as bad as footy in UFC!!

Overall some great fights..Kimbo is done feel a little sorry for him but he has no gas tank and nothing else really..made me lol the way Mitrione smiled his way through the fight!