VAT is going up to 20% say government

OzyOly said:
Because if you have a minimum wage 40h/week job and it goes any higher than the 20% it is at now (it was 10% only a year a go), it gets really hard to pay the rent and get enough food to live. I'd rather have higher VAT on things that are 'luxury' than taxed on my wage that pays for things I *need*.
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But, as has been pointed out, the poor lose proportionally more on VAT rises than income tax rises. This isn't a debating point, it's an observation of all current and previous changes in VAT levels. And, as has been pointed out repeatedly, you're not really talking "luxuries" here, you're talking about the things people typically buy in life - they may not be strict necessities, but there's a big excluded middle between necessary and luxury.

(Plus the rise in personal allowance will help balance the tax system anyway which should help the working poor anyway.)
 
Mr Jack said:
The rise of tax avoidance is overstated. And as for punishment, you're talking about taking £10-£12 billion out of people's pockets with VAT anyway, why not prefer to take it in a more progressive fashion.
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There are a few things I would like to see VAT removed from, but otherwise I much prefer vat rises (which impact my ability to buy items I generally don't need) to income tax rises (which impact my ability to buy all things).

You prefer a regressive tax that encourages people not to spend their money in the middle of recession?
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We aren't in the middle of a recession :confused:, and yes I do prefer sales taxes on non-essentials to taxes on earnings. Get the non-essentials list right (and we are pretty close despite some people claiming internet connections, solar panels and full mixed grills in the savoy are essentials) and VAT is pretty progressive, because more disposable income = more luxuries.

Our VAT levels are among some of the lowest in Europe, raising it to 20% makes perfect sense to me, especially with the much larger planned increases in tax free income.

There is also the advantage that VAT hits those on benefits if they are given more money than needed, whereas income tax does not ;)
 
Mr Jack said:
But, as has been pointed out, the poor lose proportionally more on VAT rises than income tax rises.
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How much of your monthly income is spent on main rate VATable goods and services?

Mortgages, rent, loan repayments (car, credit card etc), utilities, food make up the majority of most people's monthly expenditure.
 
Pay slightly more for things you don't need
or
Pay slightly less, but have less money to pay with in the first place, including things you do need.

Hmmmm... tough one. Not.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
So did you vote Labour then Dolph ? ;)
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I did, I saw the light on the steps of the ballot box as Brown's face beamed down from the heavens, and I knew what choice I had to make for the good of the country, no the world, for the freedom and responsibility of every man, woman and child.

Disclaimer: This post may be sarcasm
 
sbi5ar said:
a lot of people saying Labour got us into this massive national debt crisis... (which is partly true). However i cant help but feel (and of course this is my opinion) that if the Conservatives of the Liberal Democrats were in power instead of Labour we would be in a much worse situation....
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Provide 1 single reason why this would necessarily be.


We would definitely have less debt for starters!
 
Hodders said:
At the risk of starting a flame fest.

What was wrong with poll tax - we all pay the same for a loaf of bread, we all pay the same for petrol, we all pay the same for electricity. Why shouldn't we all pay the same for policing, rubbish collection etc.

Sure 'rich people' might live in bigger houses but they will only use more services if they have more people under the roof in which case they would have paid more poll tax ?

It was a simple *FAIR* policy unlike council tax which is complicated and unfair. Why should a family of 6 in a small house pay less than an elderly retired couple in a big house when they will use more services ?
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Also known as the: "Why should 20 poles living in the same house pay the same tax as a bachelor when they're producing 20x more rubbish to be picked up?" conundrum.
 
Mr Jack said:
But, as has been pointed out, the poor lose proportionally more on VAT rises than income tax rises. This isn't a debating point, it's an observation of all current and previous changes in VAT levels. And, as has been pointed out repeatedly, you're not really talking "luxuries" here, you're talking about the things people typically buy in life - they may not be strict necessities, but there's a big excluded middle between necessary and luxury.

(Plus the rise in personal allowance will help balance the tax system anyway which should help the working poor anyway.)
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If you're a big enough idiot to spend money on luxury goods while struggling with the rent and buying food then you have what’s coming to you, it's called personal responsibility.

But most of the lower classes tend to do that, it may be a cliché, but after the program on Channel 4 were local MP's spent a week living with people in hosing estates, it's a cliché that's true.

Most people have only themselves to blame for the situation they're in. Labour has proved beyond any doubt what-so-ever that throwing money at them doesn't fundamentally change there lives, they still live in squaller, just with a nicer TV paid from the tax payers pocket.
 
robgmun said:
If you're a big enough idiot to spend money on luxury goods while struggling with the rent and buying food then you have what’s coming to you, it's called personal responsibility.

But most of the lower classes tend to do that, it may be a cliché, but after the program on Channel 4 were local MP's spent a week living with people in hosing estates, it's a cliché that's true.

Most people have only themselves to blame for the situation they're in. Labour has proved beyond any doubt what-so-ever that throwing money at them doesn't fundamentally change there lives, they still live in squaller, just with a nicer TV paid from the tax payers pocket.
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Amen.
 
Who really noticed when it went to 15%, or when it went back to 17.5%. Only those buying once in a decade items like a new car/tv/kitchen.

Get it up to 20%, then start slashing public sector jobs!
 
robgmun said:
If you're a big enough idiot to spend money on luxury goods while struggling with the rent and buying food then you have what’s coming to you, it's called personal responsibility.

But most of the lower classes tend to do that, it may be a cliché, but after the program on Channel 4 were local MP's spent a week living with people in hosing estates, it's a cliché that's true.

Most people have only themselves to blame for the situation they're in. Labour has proved beyond any doubt what-so-ever that throwing money at them doesn't fundamentally change there lives, they still live in squaller, just with a nicer TV paid from the tax payers pocket.
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There is a similar program on channel 4 i think it was on last night, called something like 'how the other half live'
 
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