Epic say 'The Money's On Console'
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Man of Honour
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No way,
Despite being generations behind in the technology, consoles are cheap, easy to ease and have a wide range of titles available. Ideal for the average "switch on and go" gamer which is most likely a majority of the market place.
Conversely, PC gaming is complicated, expensive, driver critical and doesn't offer the bleeding edge of gaming it once was. This is no more evident than Crysis still being the pinnacle of PC gaming and although the hardware has moved on, the games haven't. I makes perfect business sense that game developers look to the console market to maximise their returns. All the years of PC gaming piracy has taken it's toll on the now niche market of PC gaming and how disappointed was I to see Alan Wake selling like hot cakes the other day in a high street store making me wonder if it really is worth investing the £800+ on a PC that has less titles and choice than it's sibling platform.
Despite being generations behind in the technology, consoles are cheap, easy to ease and have a wide range of titles available. Ideal for the average "switch on and go" gamer which is most likely a majority of the market place.
Conversely, PC gaming is complicated, expensive, driver critical and doesn't offer the bleeding edge of gaming it once was. This is no more evident than Crysis still being the pinnacle of PC gaming and although the hardware has moved on, the games haven't. I makes perfect business sense that game developers look to the console market to maximise their returns. All the years of PC gaming piracy has taken it's toll on the now niche market of PC gaming and how disappointed was I to see Alan Wake selling like hot cakes the other day in a high street store making me wonder if it really is worth investing the £800+ on a PC that has less titles and choice than it's sibling platform.
I actually think this article speaks a lot of sense:
http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/ps3/2009/12/14/is-console-gaming-dying/1
Whilst I agree with a lot of your points Huddy, the current console business model is unsustainable for everyone other than Nintendo.
http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/ps3/2009/12/14/is-console-gaming-dying/1
Whilst I agree with a lot of your points Huddy, the current console business model is unsustainable for everyone other than Nintendo.
Great. The PC needs lots of smaller studios producing innovative content.
Let the billion-dollar studios go to the console market to make their AAA (lawl) titles. Don't wake me up for Halo 6 or COD 15, please. So many of these console games are just more expensive rehashes of what's gone before. "The franchise" has become the base unit of currency now. If you have one original idea that means you get to spin out 5-6 games and the cash flows in.
I look forward to a time when the PC market is about more than just heating up your new GTX480. So if Epic, Activision, EA, etc, decide there's no money to be made in the PC market... great. Maybe we can all sleep through Bioshock 6
Let the billion-dollar studios go to the console market to make their AAA (lawl) titles. Don't wake me up for Halo 6 or COD 15, please. So many of these console games are just more expensive rehashes of what's gone before. "The franchise" has become the base unit of currency now. If you have one original idea that means you get to spin out 5-6 games and the cash flows in.
I look forward to a time when the PC market is about more than just heating up your new GTX480. So if Epic, Activision, EA, etc, decide there's no money to be made in the PC market... great. Maybe we can all sleep through Bioshock 6
Man of Honour
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I like Ben Hardwidge. I think he always raises good realistic views and opinions but I don't agree with all his comments in this particular artice. He mentions, for example the additional cost of a wireless adaptor but forgets to mention that a decent graphics card for a PC is likely to cost £150+ assuming it’s compatible. Otherwise it’s practically a new PC. Strangely thinking about this, up to about 2 years ago, I had countless people calling me asking me why the game they just bought wouldn't work on their aging PC. Most of these people were shocked that they would have to swallow the cost of an upgrade to play a £30 title which they assumed would just work the moment they got home. This is a lack of understanding on their part but they are not to blame. Strangely, I don't get calls like this anymore. I think this is partially because retailers now warn buyers of compatibility and minimum requirement before they buy but more so is the increasing usage of consoles for gaming..
I watch my son play the latest titles with his friends over the net with little cost with a degree of envy. He admits that MW2 looks stunning on the PC, even on an aging 8800GTX but prefers have the ease of use and choice of the console. Even when things go wrong, it’s so simple. He has had 2 RROD over the past 4 years. One both occasions Microsoft has replaced the unit within 10 days and more recently within a week with little or no fuss. Can’t argue with that.
I'm a little sceptical over the future of desktop PCs. As people use mobile internet, notepads and the dawn of internet TV the need for desktops becomes less and the gap increases.
Don’t get me wrong, I love PCs and PC gaming but you only have to look at the new releases over the next two months to see where this is all going. For the first time ever.. I have no idea what single player game to play next. I’m still using my 8800GTX in my Q6600 and wondering if my proposed upgrade is going to be worth the cash. It’s interesting to read Ben writing in this months CPC on how CPUs aren’t the necessary upgrade anymore. I think this alone is an indication of how games are stuck in the Console market. Until the next generation of console are released I don’t see things changing much.
I watch my son play the latest titles with his friends over the net with little cost with a degree of envy. He admits that MW2 looks stunning on the PC, even on an aging 8800GTX but prefers have the ease of use and choice of the console. Even when things go wrong, it’s so simple. He has had 2 RROD over the past 4 years. One both occasions Microsoft has replaced the unit within 10 days and more recently within a week with little or no fuss. Can’t argue with that.
I'm a little sceptical over the future of desktop PCs. As people use mobile internet, notepads and the dawn of internet TV the need for desktops becomes less and the gap increases.
Don’t get me wrong, I love PCs and PC gaming but you only have to look at the new releases over the next two months to see where this is all going. For the first time ever.. I have no idea what single player game to play next. I’m still using my 8800GTX in my Q6600 and wondering if my proposed upgrade is going to be worth the cash. It’s interesting to read Ben writing in this months CPC on how CPUs aren’t the necessary upgrade anymore. I think this alone is an indication of how games are stuck in the Console market. Until the next generation of console are released I don’t see things changing much.
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Like it or not, we're in the minority. Most people don't know one end of a PC from the other, and just want stuff to work. Consoles plug in and go, end of.
People don't care that the games are generic or the they're only getting 25fps. They don't even know what that means. They don't know that games are much better on the PC, and don't give a damn, because PCs are just too complicated.
And there are a lot more of them than there are of us
People don't care that the games are generic or the they're only getting 25fps. They don't even know what that means. They don't know that games are much better on the PC, and don't give a damn, because PCs are just too complicated.
And there are a lot more of them than there are of us
Caporegime
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Rubbish basically, CPu's aren't the necessary upgrade, they never were, games for 10 years have been 98% GPU limited. The difference is YOU personally used to buy a new CPU aswell as a new GPU and are slowly realising you didn't have to, thats the ONLY way you wouldn't have known that till now.
As for cost, a £110 5770 will play ANY new game with higher framerates at higher res with higher detail and far higher minimum fps's than a Console can, added into any desktop bought in the past 4 years and you'll have a more capable more powerful gaming machine than a console.
As for being driver dependant, I also find that complete rubbish. People who stick with a year old driver set rarely if ever have trouble, its the people who try every single new set, every beta, every RC, then the final, they switch back to the RC because 3dmark was 1.3% faster who have driver problems.
I can't remember the last driver problem I had with a game, infact the last time I had trouble was on a 8800gtx when Vista was new and their 64bit driver was appauling and unstable, even then their 32bit driver was rock solid and games were generally fine appart from eventual memory leak crashes, but it really wasn't game specific
One of the only reasons consoles have been the primary platform this time around for much longer than the last few console generations, was Nvidia and its unholy abomination of ripping the guts out of DX10, putting it back 3 years. Ultimately because DX10 was so useless, after 2-3 years of titles preparing for it, and basically shelving lots of the work they did for DX10 stuff. The gap between dx9/dx10 wasn't big, all games stayed dx9 and for too long.
Consoles really had smeg all to do with Vista's pathetic uptake, DX10's massive failure, the very long gap between the broken DX10 and DX11 being release which has also lately caused more and more titles to forgo DX9/XP support, which should have started happening 3 damn years ago.
Either way, its happening DX9/XP is finally being phased out, as developers start to exclude supporting a decade old API, move forwards and also have the ability to support Vista and Win 7 machines, which have much higher minimum specs, it gives them the licence(they should have had 3 years ago) to push on much faster.
Consoles have already been left behind to be honest, playing a game in low res with low framerates, and things like GTA4 with horrible shadows and incredibly low minimums on the 360, its not comparable.
Anyway its the same old argument, and its based on a lie essentially, people convince themselves a great gaming machine MUST have the most expensive GPU and the most expensive CPU or its not going to be good.
I don't know anyone with a console, who doesn't have a desktop, 98% of those people could get a graphics card for less than their console cost and have a faster gaming machine, free multiplayer with FAR more updates and options. The problem is, most people don't know that all they'll need is a half decent GPU, and most people are convinced consoles have some unheard of unavailable completely incomparable graphics and cpu's, from the next next gen that PC's can't compare to......... because people are stupid and illinformed.
THe biggest joke of the whole situation is, most big titles come out on the PC anyway, which I can play with higher framerates, with more detail in higher res with a better control method. PC wins hands down and has done since the 360 released. Dozens of fantastic titles release on consoles and the PC every year, theres no shortage of games, and no shortage of gamers.
People seem to get it in their heads that, lets say COD 4 sold, 10 million, that there are 10 million gamers out there, there aren't, there are 100's of millions out there, who like different games and different platforms, they are ALL making a KILLING on software, console dev's, pc dev's, ps3 dev's...... not sure any Nintendo dev's are making a killing, I don't know anyone who bothers buying Wii games anymore.
As for cost, a £110 5770 will play ANY new game with higher framerates at higher res with higher detail and far higher minimum fps's than a Console can, added into any desktop bought in the past 4 years and you'll have a more capable more powerful gaming machine than a console.
As for being driver dependant, I also find that complete rubbish. People who stick with a year old driver set rarely if ever have trouble, its the people who try every single new set, every beta, every RC, then the final, they switch back to the RC because 3dmark was 1.3% faster who have driver problems.
I can't remember the last driver problem I had with a game, infact the last time I had trouble was on a 8800gtx when Vista was new and their 64bit driver was appauling and unstable, even then their 32bit driver was rock solid and games were generally fine appart from eventual memory leak crashes, but it really wasn't game specific
One of the only reasons consoles have been the primary platform this time around for much longer than the last few console generations, was Nvidia and its unholy abomination of ripping the guts out of DX10, putting it back 3 years. Ultimately because DX10 was so useless, after 2-3 years of titles preparing for it, and basically shelving lots of the work they did for DX10 stuff. The gap between dx9/dx10 wasn't big, all games stayed dx9 and for too long.
Consoles really had smeg all to do with Vista's pathetic uptake, DX10's massive failure, the very long gap between the broken DX10 and DX11 being release which has also lately caused more and more titles to forgo DX9/XP support, which should have started happening 3 damn years ago.
Either way, its happening DX9/XP is finally being phased out, as developers start to exclude supporting a decade old API, move forwards and also have the ability to support Vista and Win 7 machines, which have much higher minimum specs, it gives them the licence(they should have had 3 years ago) to push on much faster.
Consoles have already been left behind to be honest, playing a game in low res with low framerates, and things like GTA4 with horrible shadows and incredibly low minimums on the 360, its not comparable.
Anyway its the same old argument, and its based on a lie essentially, people convince themselves a great gaming machine MUST have the most expensive GPU and the most expensive CPU or its not going to be good.
I don't know anyone with a console, who doesn't have a desktop, 98% of those people could get a graphics card for less than their console cost and have a faster gaming machine, free multiplayer with FAR more updates and options. The problem is, most people don't know that all they'll need is a half decent GPU, and most people are convinced consoles have some unheard of unavailable completely incomparable graphics and cpu's, from the next next gen that PC's can't compare to......... because people are stupid and illinformed.
THe biggest joke of the whole situation is, most big titles come out on the PC anyway, which I can play with higher framerates, with more detail in higher res with a better control method. PC wins hands down and has done since the 360 released. Dozens of fantastic titles release on consoles and the PC every year, theres no shortage of games, and no shortage of gamers.
People seem to get it in their heads that, lets say COD 4 sold, 10 million, that there are 10 million gamers out there, there aren't, there are 100's of millions out there, who like different games and different platforms, they are ALL making a KILLING on software, console dev's, pc dev's, ps3 dev's...... not sure any Nintendo dev's are making a killing, I don't know anyone who bothers buying Wii games anymore.
I'm pretty sure Nintendo First Party games make an absolute fortune for Nintendo, they are usually at the top of the charts for weeks/months in Japan at least anyway.
Mario Galaxy 2 will sell extremely well IMO
I bought a 360 the other week because I was fed up of missing out on certain titles, specifically Gears of War 2 and the Halo games. Has it been worth it so far? Yes - but the nasty jaggy graphics, annoying whiny kids on voice chat, and the fact that MS want you to pay for just about everything vexes me as a long time PC gamer familiar with an open platform.
It's a great console, no doubt. But its shortcomings frustrate me. However, they also have the effect of pigeonholing the Xbox into a certain area. It can't replace my PC, but it does fill a niche.
It's a great console, no doubt. But its shortcomings frustrate me. However, they also have the effect of pigeonholing the Xbox into a certain area. It can't replace my PC, but it does fill a niche.
Interesting read, thanks.
Soldato
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There's no doubt that there's more money to be made on consoles otherwise the companies wouldn't be focusing on them so much however there's obviously money to be made on PCs as well.
For example, in the last few months we've seen ubisoft release a major new DRM system that obviously signals their intent to continue producing games for the PC otherwise just what was the point.
Steam have also recently released a client for Max OS and there is a Linux client in the works which they wouldn't be doing unless they thought there was money to be made.
For example, in the last few months we've seen ubisoft release a major new DRM system that obviously signals their intent to continue producing games for the PC otherwise just what was the point.
Steam have also recently released a client for Max OS and there is a Linux client in the works which they wouldn't be doing unless they thought there was money to be made.
Man of Honour
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I think your comments are a little bias tbh. That I can understand. However, it still remains that for the average person, the beauty of the console is that they can buy a game knowing perfectly well they can just take it home and play. Not everyone wants to know the inner workings of a PC the same way I don't care how my DVD plays the disks I insert. Of course your £110 5770 would assume they have a compatible motherbaord and this would mean nothing to mr. average joe blogs.
I agree that consoles are an aging technology but this still leaves the question as to why games aren't testing the PC techology the same why it did four years ago.
As for profit, recent figures show that in MW2 on PC for example, piracy far outstrip sales making it less attractive as a viable market place than the consoles.
All I'm trying to say is console gaming will die in the next 5-10 years because of the rise of cloud gaming in the future and most gamers wanting to jump onto cloud gaming will very likely have their own computer and just use that as specs, drivers etc don't really matter.
Therefore the whole 'pc gaming is dieing' will start to turn into 'oh crap wait, console gaming is dieing', I just think it could be midly amusing
Therefore the whole 'pc gaming is dieing' will start to turn into 'oh crap wait, console gaming is dieing', I just think it could be midly amusing
Don't bring piracy into this. And especially don't try and point fingers at it for poor sales with MW2 on PC, the huge majority of those pirated copies would NEVER of bought MW2 if they had no alternative, i highly doubt anyone pirated with any intention other than trying the Singleplayer.
Activision are the sole reason for the piracy on PC with MW2, the whole way they treated the pc playerbase, screwing them over at every turn with obscene prices for something that is just an annual remake of the previous game with a few more bells and whistles.
Don't try and point fingers at piracy for something activision actually encouraged by completing turning there back on the gamers who made them what they are.
Activision are the sole reason for the piracy on PC with MW2, the whole way they treated the pc playerbase, screwing them over at every turn with obscene prices for something that is just an annual remake of the previous game with a few more bells and whistles.
Don't try and point fingers at piracy for something activision actually encouraged by completing turning there back on the gamers who made them what they are.
Man of Honour
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eh regardless how you feel about the game and/or the series, it doesn't give anyone the right to pirate copies.
I'm merely saying that if it were a straight choice to make money on a title, you'd put your investment where there's a decent rate of return. It doesn't make business sense to release titles on a platform where piracy is so high and is a know problem and I was using MW2 as an example. Doom3 was another example of how PC gaming shot itself in the foot.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/john-carmack-rage,6074.html
“We certainly expect Rage and the Doom project on the PC. We’re contractually obligated to have Rage on the PC, and I would be stunned if we did not do Doom 4 for the PC,” Carmack added. “It would just be wrong. Even if it was a marginal business case, we would still do it because it’s the right thing to do.”
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Caporegime
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What was the last good game that Epic released? I'm not one for Unreal Tournament and the majority of games I've played with the Unreal Engine I hated, Rainbow Six Vegas rings a bell.
Associate
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That would be Unreal Tournament 3.
The Unreal Tournament series on PC (personally for me UT2K4 and UT3) as far as I am concerned, stand on a footing with Quake as one of the great MP franchises.
I think UT3 throws doubt on whether this type of game/genre can survive in the current marketplace, but for old-school deathmatchers like me they are unmatchable.
All I'm trying to say is console gaming will die in the next 5-10 years because of the rise of cloud gaming in the future and most gamers wanting to jump onto cloud gaming will very likely have their own computer and just use that as specs, drivers etc don't really matter.
Therefore the whole 'pc gaming is dieing' will start to turn into 'oh crap wait, console gaming is dieing', I just think it could be midly amusing
I don't agree. Firstly you'll need **** off superb broadband EVERYWHERE. Maybe, in 10 years time, in the richer parts of the world.
But in addition the hundreds of millions of console gamers aren't going to suddenly buy PCs to access cloud hosted games, they'll buy the latest sony 'console' to do so. The fact that it will be a dumb terminal that will stream everything from the cloud won't matter a jot to them.
This is the point a lot of people aren't getting - most console owners aren't computer literate. This is why they've bought consoles. They want to game, and PCs are complicated and expensive, and buying PC games is a minefield.
Gaming might well move onto the could, doesn't mean it'll move to PCs.
