Soldato
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It doesn't matter. We were at war (they started), it was a military vessel.
Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship
- Thread starter Stolly
- Start date
If the guy breaking down the door is immediately preceded by flashing blue lights outside and a bloke shouting "armed police" i'd realise this wasn't some random after my TV and would do exactly what i am told.
I would certainly not be reaching for a petrol bomb at any rate.
Associate
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Both sides will say that they were attacked first. I'll wait until more information is available before judging either side as none of us were there it makes no sense until we have all the information to hand.
Is it just me or is the Israeli military just a bit crap? first their little operation in Dubai was made to look like the work of rank amateurs, the Dubai police absolutely took them to the cleaners in terms of evidence and good police work.
And now their so called special forces get made to look a bit silly, the funniest bit for me was the video where they highlight the scary guys with metal poles...conveniently ignoring the fact that they had sub-machine guns and helicopter support, oh nooos a bad man with a pole is after me i better shoot him in defence.
Here's a question...in the video they say a firebomb is thrown, but it looks to me like the video picks up heat signatures, if so why is it not visible when it hits the ground? it just seems to do nothing...there might be a good reason, i'm just interested.
Nothing like trial by youtube.
And now their so called special forces get made to look a bit silly, the funniest bit for me was the video where they highlight the scary guys with metal poles...conveniently ignoring the fact that they had sub-machine guns and helicopter support, oh nooos a bad man with a pole is after me i better shoot him in defence.
Here's a question...in the video they say a firebomb is thrown, but it looks to me like the video picks up heat signatures, if so why is it not visible when it hits the ground? it just seems to do nothing...there might be a good reason, i'm just interested.
Nothing like trial by youtube.
I guess they fell foul of this list, which includes fabric, chocolate, sage, vinegar, dried fruit, plaster and other building materials, containers, fishing rods, writing implements, paper etc etc.
http://www.fastforgaza.net/sites/de...ermitted_and_prohibited_items_for_Gaza__0.pdf
exactly - and maybe the police are illegally and unjustifiably raiding you, but they'll still respond with force if you attack them while they do it.
I think the two things need to seperated here, the legality/morality of the blockade, and the right of soldiers to defend their lives and those of their comrades when engaged in their duties
Associate
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Something needs to be done about these Israeli stools, murdering on a aid ship for crying out loud.
'murdering on an aid ship' is how you put it.
some are might call it 'commandos act in self defense when attacked carrying out a (questionably legal) boarding of a ship claiming to be a humanitarian aid ship'
or even
'humanitarian flotilla ship attempts to provoke IDF forces by committing pre-meditated murder and is met with deadly force'
see what I did there?
Caporegime
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I guess they fell foul of this list, which includes fabric, chocolate, sage, vinegar, dried fruit, plaster and other building materials, containers, fishing rods, writing implements, paper etc etc.
http://www.fastforgaza.net/sites/de...ermitted_and_prohibited_items_for_Gaza__0.pdf
I know this will come as a shock to you, but terrorists and hidden weapons aren't actually listed on the official manifest.
Also in general terrorists don't board the 3pm terrorist designated ship to Israel, terrorists have a habbit, of you know, hiding.
Whats listed on the ship manifest really doesn't have anything to do with anything.
If a boatload of AIDS vaccine was shipping to the UK, and the UK inteligence services got intel that a terrorist was on board, or someone stashed a nuke on board to be blown up in the UK, the fact that the manifest would list Aids vaccine is neither here nor there, theres a suspected threat, we stop the boat, board it and as we have intel there are dangerous people and weapons on board if we were attacked we'd take those people down.
As for the idiotic comment about shooting a guy with a pipe in self defence being daft because he had machine guns and helicopter support.......... what, a guy hits you with a metal pole he can easily kill you, the reason for having a weapon is to use it to stop people hitting you with metal poles.
I can't think of a good reason that aid workers would attack armed personel, not one and given the choice between shooting someone who I was fairly sure was about to try and cave my face in with a metal pole, or stand there and let it happen, I'd shoot.
INternational waters, piracy, idiotic people trying to classify what someone did, if the UK thought there was a threat on the way or weapons on board, you stop the ship the first chance you get, lets say we know theres weapons on board a ship travelling a thousand miles, do we wait for it to be within 25miles, no we go get it, why, because that ship might offload weapons/or people 30miles out and it becomes harder to track/find them. You know about a threat(even if the intel is wrong) you deal with it, not dealing with it, or waiting for arbitrary lines to be crossed is incompetant and if we failed to stop a terrorist bomb going off in London and it turned out we stopped the boat this guy was on 25miles out but he'd boarded a different smaller boat 28miles out, the media and everyone in this thread would rip them a new one for such incompetance.
Israel are acting like a state thats constantly under terrorist attack.
Theres many things, including this, I don't remotely blame Israel for, other things, sure, they've done plenty of daft stuff, but Israel being formed for the jews was something we all forced on Palestine, both sides are guilty of continuing a daft war over nothing, get on with life, or keep killing each other, those are the two choices and both sides constantly choose to keep killing each other.
Associate
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yes, you played with words, well done, here have a medal.
Commandos feel threatened with sticks and stones while they have guns and choppers backing them up??? Oh please. These is nothing more than state sponsored piracy within international waters.
Please show me where the IDF asked to board the ships to search for weapons, then. I provided you a list of prohibited items, nothing to do with weapons, if Israel was concerned with just those, only weapons would be banned. This is clearly a blockade as the IDF will not allow items such as dried fruit into Gaza.
This is a very obvious ship, it makes little sense to use it for smuggling arms...
Can I see some evidence please? Or are you going to keep making irrelevant comparisons?
We seem to do a poor job here in the UK of stopping illegal immigrants, never mind weapons smuggling. Oh wait, you like to fearmonger to justify practically anything...
I have no interest in the conflict continuing, as I do not manufacture weapons...
I don't know what happened, since I wasn't there, but reports and videos suggest it was more than sticks and stones - even if it was - I'd consider being rushed by a group of people with sticks and stones a life threatening situation and shoot first.
And the point is, the reason there were deaths is because the 'activists' ignored the fact of the guns and choppers backing them up.
The legality of the boarding action has very little to do with who was responsible for the bloodshed here.
This is pathetic.
The flotilla was told they would be intercepted if they attempted to run the blockade - they didn't just come out of nowhere and land on their ship without warning.
I'm not saying Israel is in the right here, but this knee-jerk response to headlines when all the facts are not in irks me.
for those that are interested please follow the video links in this page
http://www.energypublisher.com/article.asp?id=33939
http://www.energypublisher.com/article.asp?id=33939
my opinion too tbh. although i probably wouldnt attacks because im not suicidal and its obvious i wouldnt of won. israel bordering on piracy
firstly are you aware of what a fallacy is?
secondly -
your quote doesn't indicate disapproval of anyone yet by the US
The Spanish and French govts have called it disproportionate? I call that premature but certainly possible.
And Italy calls for an investigation - sounds good - people died.
Of course Turkey and Greece will condemn them, Sweden I don't really know much about.