Early Greek clothing and the Amazons

[Angilion]

Idle curiousity strikes again...

First off, I know that even in classical Greek times the stories of the Amazons were so old that no-one even knew where the name came from. I'm just curious about what it might have meant if the etymology of the name was 'without breasts'.

I'm thinking that the stories stemmed from very early Greek encounters with a semi-nomadic (hence the horse-riding and archery) society in which some of the women were warriors. It's certain that such societies did exist in the relevant area (e.g. the Scythians).

I'm thinking that a woman dressed in light armour (hardened leather seems likely) might appear breastless to a Greek man who would be utterly unused to thinking of a woman in armour.

Which leads me to my question about early Greek clothing. As far as I know, it was loose cloth and probably pretty thin for summer wear given the heat. If so, a Greek woman's breasts would affect the way her clothing hanged. A Greek man would be used to this, so the quite different way a woman would appear in light armour could lead Greek men to think those women didn't have breasts.

i) Am I right about ancient Greek women's clothing?
ii) If I am, does my line of argument seem plausible?

 

[Gilly]

iii) Do your own homework.
iv) Watch 300

 

[RopAyy]

Couldnt the term 'without breasts' also be down to how un-lady like the Amazonian women would have been?
Or maybe if they really were a tribe of warrior ladies they would have been training and fighting from an early age and physically would have lost most of the shape and definition of breasts due to the build up of muscle through the years?

 

[Angilion]

I could look things up on the net. They might be true. Unlike 300, which is total codswallop. The fact that you suggest it nicely illustrates the problem with just looking stuff up on the net.

 

[scorza]

Wasn't the thing about Amazons that there were supposed to cut their breasts off so they could fire a bow and arrow in combat? I guess the question then would be are breasts really hamper the use of a bow that much? There's quite a nice picture on the 'net of a lady in tight clothes pulling back a modern archery bow seemingly without issue, although of course an ancient bow would be very different to a modern one.

I guess the OP's hypothesis would be incorrect, because no doubt the Greeks would have killed and captured a few of the female warriors, and therefore could have done a proper inspection.

 

[Angilion]

Couldnt the term 'without breasts' also be down to how un-lady like the Amazonian women would have been?

It could - it might just have been an indirect way of saying they were unwomanly. Which they certainly would have been by Greek standards. Similarly, another suggested etymology is 'without bread' or 'without grain' as an indirect reference to them not being settled farmers.

Or maybe if they really were a tribe of warrior ladies they would have been training and fighting from an early age and physically would have lost most of the shape and definition of breasts due to the build up of muscle through the years?

That could work too, but you'd still need an additional factor to make them appear to not have breasts at all. We're not talking about body builder shape here. There's nothing similar from other cases in which men from a culture in which women never fight encountered women from another culture who did, e.g. Romans invading Gaul and Britain.

 

[Angilion]

Wasn't the thing about Amazons that there were supposed to cut their breasts off so they could fire a bow and arrow in combat? I guess the question then would be are breasts really hamper the use of a bow that much? There's quite a nice picture on the 'net of a lady in tight clothes pulling back a modern archery bow seemingly without issue, although of course an ancient bow would be very different to a modern one.

There are women who fire traditional bows. Having breasts doesn't seem to be a problem. I think it would be even less so with a shortbow, and of course a horse archer would be using a shortbow.

It doesn't seem likely to me that the custom you refer to actually happened. It's too likely to kill the woman, the resulting scar tissue might well make her less able as an archer, not more, and a woman can fire a bow or use a sword without hacking her breasts off. It just doesn't make sense. Although there are plenty of examples of customs that don't make sense, so I don't completely rule it out.

I guess the OP's hypothesis would be incorrect, because no doubt the Greeks would have killed and captured a few of the female warriors, and therefore could have done a proper inspection.

The idea could have been established before that happened. Immediate full-scale war wouldn't necessarily have been the first encounter between the two societies. Also, the people doing the inspection wouldn't necessarily have been the soldiers who were fighting and far-fetched stories can easily spread more quickly than simple truth.

 

[Cosimo]

iii) Do your own homework.
iv) Watch 300

During half-term.

 

[edscdk]

Wasn't the thing about Amazons that there were supposed to cut their breasts off so they could fire a bow and arrow in combat? I guess the question then would be are breasts really hamper the use of a bow that much? There's quite a nice picture on the 'net of a lady in tight clothes pulling back a modern archery bow seemingly without issue, although of course an ancient bow would be very different to a modern one.

I guess the OP's hypothesis would be incorrect, because no doubt the Greeks would have killed and captured a few of the female warriors, and therefore could have done a proper inspection.

um, I htink it would be less painful to strap them down...

like someone said it may be a term to suggest 'unlady like', like "thoes greeks have no balls" does not mean that are castrated...

when you say 'the stories' are there several? it probably only stemmed from 1 persons account...

also when you translate one language to another it often comes out sounding very odd...

 

[ntg]

from wikipedia:

''Among Classical Greeks, amazon was given a popular etymology as from a-mazos, "without breast", connected with an etiological tradition that Amazons had their right breast cut off or burnt out, so they would be able to use a bow more freely and throw spears without the physical limitation and obstruction;[5] there is no indication of such a practice in works of art, in which the Amazons are always represented with both breasts, although the right is frequently covered.''

So there's your answer.