Deaths as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

DreadNiK said:
... Sure, we don't know what happened before and after the video. ...
Click to expand...
As you so rightly point out, we don't know what happened before and after the video. Nor do have any reason to trust any video released by the Israelis designed improbably to portray them as innocent victims of terrorist acts.

However, what we DO know is is that the Israelis have a very long record of hiding facts and ignoring & distorting the truth - i.e. lying - and of committing atrocious war crimes in Palestine and the Lebanon.


Again, I wonder why the Israelis confiscated all the aid workers' video cameras, mobile phones and PCs - perhaps they feared that they might contain evidence to disprove the Israeli lies :confused:
 
stockhausen said:
As you so rightly point out, we don't know what happened before and after the video. Nor do have any reason to trust any video released by the Free Gaza Movement designed improbably to portray them as innocent victims of terrorist acts.

However, what we DO know is is that the Palestinians and Muslims have a very long record of hiding facts and ignoring & distorting the truth - i.e. lying - and of committing atrocious war crimes in Israel, America, Europe and Asia.


Again, I wonder why the Flotilla had weapons, gas masks and attacked the soldiers before their feet even hit the ground. Why if they were on a peace mission to get much needed aid to Gaza, they didn't comply and said aid would have reached Gaza? was it to make Israel look like the bad guys? :confused:
Click to expand...
 
As you so rightly point out, we don't know what happened before and after the video. Nor do have any reason to trust any video released by the Free Gaza Movement designed improbably to portray them as innocent victims of terrorist acts.
Click to expand...

No video on either side can be trusted in this case. The truth will never be known about what happened here.

However, what we DO know is is that the Palestinians and Muslims have a very long record of hiding facts and ignoring & distorting the truth - i.e. lying - and of committing atrocious war crimes in Israel, America, Europe and Asia.
Click to expand...

All countries do this, its standard practice for people in general to lie to benefit themselves. However as far as I am aware Palestinians and Muslims are not a governement and as such cannot be compared to the IDF. Religion has nothing to do with the argument. The attack on the ships was carried out by a government body. The aid workers and owners of the ships as far as I am aware are not a government body.

The terrorists who carry out acts cannot be compared to a democratic government. When terrorists carry out an act it is a terrible thing. However, when a civilised western government carries out similar attacks it is much worse (in my opinion).


Again, I wonder why the Flotilla had weapons, gas masks and attacked the soldiers before their feet even hit the ground. Why if they were on a peace mission to get much needed aid to Gaza, they didn't comply and said aid would have reached Gaza? was it to make Israel look like the bad guys? :confused:
Click to expand...

Weapons is a very loose term, on one hand I have no weapons in my office, however I could imagine if my family was being attached I could quickly fashion one. Gas masks would be a sensible precaution as the IDF are well known to use tear gas on unarmed protestors. They attacked the soldiers before their feet hit the ground which can be seen based upon the small limited video footage that has been made available. As I said in an earlier thread - without knowing what happened prior to this incident it is impossible to say whether this was reasonable or not.

In regards to complying with Israel it would have meant losing a lot of the aid that they were trying to supply that Israel has banned. This includes a lot of basic building materials that are required to build even the most basic of shelthers. This aid would never have reached Gaza.
 
Bar said:
In regards to complying with Israel it would have meant losing a lot of the aid that they were trying to supply that Israel has banned. This includes a lot of basic building materials that are required to build even the most basic of shelthers. This aid would never have reached Gaza.
Click to expand...

That makes no sense - they had no hope in hell of stopping the IDF even if they were armed to the teeth.

This was nothing more than a shameless PR stunt that Israel stupidly walked into and the activists pointlessly sacrificed a few brain washed idiots for.
 
n111ck said:
That makes no sense - they had no hope in hell of stopping the IDF even if they were armed to the teeth.

This was nothing more than a shameless PR stunt that Israel stupidly walked into and the activists pointlessly sacrificed a few brain washed idiots for.
Click to expand...

They had a chance of getting through with all the aid that they intended to supply - fairly sure I read a story that said one ship (that had broken away earlier from the convoy) did get through.

It was absolutely a PR stunt and Israel were indeed stupid to deal with it in the way that they did.
 
Bar said:
... It was absolutely a PR stunt and Israel were indeed stupid to deal with it in the way that they did.
Click to expand...
The ships taking essential humanitarian aid to the Palestinians in Gaza certainly aren't taking enough to make a significant difference; to that extent you are right, the flotillas do constitute a PR stunt aimed at drawing attention to the shameful Israeli blockade of Gaza. The flotilla was more successful on this occasion than on previous occasion, because of Israel's naked aggression.

Israel disingenuously claims that they already allow essential humanitarian aid into Gaza; the truth is that there are many things that they will not allow through - e.g many medicines, educational materials and building materials needed to rebuild the houses that the Israelis destroyed some 18 months ago.

Israel is quite deliberately maintaining Gaza as a ghetto in the hope that the Palestinian refugees living there will eventually elect to leave and Israel can finally take over the land to give to immigrants from around the world. If this isn't state terrorism, God alone knows what is :mad:
 
My god - are people really stating matter-of-factly in this thread that they'd rather leap to conclusions or believe supposedly first hand assertions rather than video evidence released less than a day after the events took place, from different angles?

I am truly amazed. Seriously. Could someone please help me understand claims such as:

"No video on either side can be trusted in this case"

and

"Nor do have any reason to trust any video released by the Israelis designed improbably to portray them as innocent victims of terrorist acts."

I'm at a loss here
 
DreadNiK said:
My god - are people really stating matter-of-factly in this thread that they'd rather leap to conclusions or believe supposedly first hand assertions rather than video evidence released less than a day after the events took place, from different angles?

I am truly amazed. Seriously. Could someone please help me understand claims such as:

"No video on either side can be trusted in this case"

and

"Nor do have any reason to trust any video released by the Israelis designed improbably to portray them as innocent victims of terrorist acts."

I'm at a loss here
Click to expand...
Doubtless when the Israelis release the many video cameras, mobile phones and PCs that they have confiscated - without having deleted or edited any of the contents - we will see another side of the event ;)

In the meantime
We DO know that the Israelis have a very long record of hiding facts and ignoring & distorting the truth - i.e. lying - and of committing atrocious war crimes in Palestine and the Lebanon
Click to expand...
Sadly, I am NOT truly amazed that people believe any information at all that comes from the Israeli authorities and the Aussie Propaganda Minister Mark Regev
 
I guess you'd have to be a fully paid up mouthpiece of Hamas to believe that fault lies solely with the Israelis and is not shared between them and the not entirely peaceful "peace activists" on that ship.
 
See, stockhausen is a perfect example of all that is wrong with the counter argument to the Israelis.
The Israelis are obviously guilty in spite of the video footage we have all seen which seems to vindicate their soldier's actions.
He also states that the Israelis are guilty because they have a history of deceit.
The fact that the Palestinians, the Iranians, Jordanians, Syrians etc... have a history of aggression that would make Mohammed feel emasculated seems to count for nothing. Nor does the fact that since the blockade the innocent Israeli citizens have seen a drastic reduction in their civilians being bombed or attacked by rockets.
Stockhausen, we know where you stand but now discuss instead of spouting anti semitic propaganda. That is all you are doing at the moment but I'm sure you are better than that.

EDIT: Or are you willing to suggest that the Israeli civilians should be sacrificed to keep the Palestinian militants happy?
 
Last edited:
If you lads watch Aljazeera news, one of their reporters that was on the ship was released recently.

He said tha the Isrealis first opened with Tear Gas and Stun Grenades when the people started getting rowdy.

Followed by rubber bullets, which 5 minutes later was swapped for Live Ammo.

At that time the Commandos were already being clubbed and thrown overboard. Not to mention two were knocked out and their weapons were taken.

No surprise Live ammo was used then.

Aljazeera which is known to very Islamic Biased incertain cases, yet their reporter still told the proper facts.

Teargas, stun grenades, rubber bullets and finally live ammo are the propper steps any security or military force takes to control a situation before it turns violent.
 
Last edited:
SlugForAButt said:
Stockhausen, we know where you stand but now discuss instead of spouting anti semitic propaganda. That is all you are doing at the moment but I'm sure you are better than that.
Click to expand...

+1

ETA: actually I don't think anti-semitic is fair - he tends to refer to Israel and Israelis rather than Jews I believe?
 
N19h7m4r3 said:
If you lads watch Aljazeera news, one of their reporters that was on the ship was released recently.

He said tha the Isrealis first opened with Tear Gas and Stun Grenades when the people started getting rowdy.

Followed by rubber bullets, which 5 minutes later was swapped for Live Ammo.

At that time the Commandos were already being clubbed and thrown overboard. Not to mention two were knocked out and their weapons were taken.

No surprise Live ammo was used then.

Aljazeera which is known to very Islamic Biased incertain cases, yet their reporter still told the proper facts.

Teargas, stun grenades, rubber bullets and finally live ammo are the propper steps any security or military force takes to control a situation before it turns violent.
Click to expand...

Can you provide a link to the clip? That is suprising indeed.
 
N19h7m4r3 said:
Here ya go lads.

Aljazeera clip

http://english.aljazeera.net/video/middleeast/2010/06/201063123021327499.html
Click to expand...

what are you talking about - the guy said the Israelis fired live ammo from the helicopters as they approached the ship, and caused casualties this way before they landed. Which means either he is saying the IDF were monumentally, staggeringly stupid (highly unlikely) and opened fire before landing and then took five minutes to use live fire again after landing and encountering the resistance we saw, or (much more likely) isn't giving an accurate account of events.

but then he pretty much weasels his way around everything that we see in the only videos we do have, so I wouldn't say his credibility is fantastic. And it is Al-Jazeera. I think we really need Israel to release all the footage recovered from the ship at once.
 
Last edited:
DreadNiK said:
what are you talking about - the guy said the Israelis fired live ammo from the helicopters as they approached the ship, and caused casualties this way before they landed.
.
Click to expand...

If you listen to it, he goes on to say those where not teh first shots, activists fired teh first shots and these helicopter shots was after 5 or so minutes of gas and rubber bullets.
 
direct quote:

"there is no doubt from what I saw that live ammunition was fired before any Israeli soldier was on deck"

unfortunately this is a stupid claim
 
why is there so many people on these ships? prob up to no good i should imagine!
 
AcidHell2 said:
If you listen to it, he goes on to say those where not teh first shots, activists fired teh first shots and these helicopter shots was after 5 or so minutes of gas and rubber bullets.
Click to expand...

Please stop using "teh" instead of "the". It isn't big or clever and just makes your post much harder to read.
Thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom