Earth spinning

[Dark_Angel]

Seriously - WHY is this debate going again? Its been done like a billion times, each time the "it won't off" people eventually crumble. It's even been *DONE* on Mythbusters... both with a model plane and a proper full sized real life one!

 

[neodude]

As soon as the treadmill goes too fast (which by your claims is instantly)

Not by my claim. If the treadmill is matching the speed of the wheels it is the only way it can happen.

 

["andy"]

So why the **** do planes have wheels then???

The plane needs the wheels to allow it to move forward. For it to move forward the wheels must be moving relative to the surface they are on. If the treadmill is exactly matching the speed of the wheels it is impossible for the plane to move!

no . they have wheels to stop the existance of huge friction with the ground or in this case a treadmill ,that YOU think exists. theyre there to stop the ground/treadmill having an effect on takeoff

this is why i mentioned seaplanes about 5 times. because theres no friction or force against it from the ground they dont need the wheels

Seriously - WHY is this debate going again? Its been done like a billion times, each time the "it won't off" people eventually crumble. It's even been *DONE* on Mythbusters... both with a model plane and a proper full sized real life one!

i like watching the crumbling

 

[neodude]

Seriously - WHY is this debate going again? Its been done like a billion times, each time the "it won't off" people eventually crumble. It's even been *DONE* on Mythbusters... both with a model plane and a proper full sized real life one!

It hasn't been *DONE* by mythbusters. It is impossible to do in reality. There is no such thing as a treadmill that can exactly match any wheelspeed instantly.

 

[neodude]

A treadmill that YOU think exists

Do I? When did I say this?

 

["andy"]

Do I? When did I say this?

read the sentance before you cut it in half and changed the meaning... actually i might of missed a comma woops.

they have wheels to stop the existance of huge friction with the ground or in this case a treadmill , that YOU think exists

i mean you think some magical force or friction from the ground/treadmill has an effect on the plane.

 

[neodude]

read the sentance before you cut it in half and changed the meaning...

???

 

[Tefal]

???

he's talking about the friction not the treadmill...

 

[neodude]

he's talking about the friction not the treadmill...

You've still lost me.

 

["andy"]

you have been lost for the last 3 pages to be fair.

you will never be found until you stop thinking that the wheels transfer backwards force from the treadmill up to the plane

 

[neodude]

you have been lost for the last 3 pages to be fair.

you will never be found until you stop thinking that the wheels transfer backwards force from the treadmill up to the plane

They do.

By your reckoning if I stood on a treadmill with rollerskates and then let go of the sides I would remain stationary?

 

[neodude]

Yay, 1000 posts.

 

[Nate--IRL--]

They do.

Care to show us how much?

Nate

 

[Dark_Angel]

It hasn't been *DONE* by mythbusters. It is impossible to do in reality. There is no such thing as a treadmill that can exactly match any wheelspeed instantly.

.............................................

sigh.

 

["andy"]

They do.

By your reckoning if I stood on a treadmill with rollerskates and then let go of the sides I would remain stationary?

no but you could hold yourself still with so little force that its not even worth mentioning when 1000s of lbs of thrust and high spec bearings are involved

 

[lord filbuster]

no but you could hold yourself still with so little force that its not even worth mentioning when 1000s of lbs of thrust and high spec bearings are involved

Indeed.

Real life: plane takes off.

Thoeretically: plane could be prevented from taking off, but the treadmill would probably have to approach relativistic speeds.

 

[neodude]

Care to show us how much?

Nate

Like how?

Ok. To restate what I'm saying...

The original question...

"A plane on a treadmill that matches the forward speed of the plane, can it fly"

I think yes.

"A plane on a treadmill that matches the wheelspeed of the plane, can it fly"

I think it won't budge an inch unless it has the power-weight ratio to overcome the friction of its tyres against the surface and skid to take off speed (In that case, I think yes, it would fly)

Now, does anybody have some solid arguments against this?

 

[neodude]

Indeed.

Real life: plane takes off.

Thoeretically: plane could be prevented from taking off, but the treadmill would probably have to approach relativistic speeds.

I agree entirely. Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

[div0]

If Neodude is defending his stance that the plane wouldn't take off in the following situation, then he is 100% correct!

If an aeroplane was sat on a treadmill that was moving in the opposite direction at the same speed the wheels were moving, would it be able to take off?

As the only way this can occur, is if there is zero forward movement on the plane (in relation to the ground - assuming the treadmill is fixed to the ground).

The correct phraseology for the aeroplane/treadmill question is that the treadmill continuously adjusts to match the speed of the plane (not the wheels!). This results in the wheel speed always being twice that of the plane's speed, but this is irrelevant, as the engines just need to accelerate the plane to sufficient speed to take off, and it doesn't matter if the wheels need to spin twice as fast as they would normally be doing at this (linear, plane-to-ground reference) speed. So in the 'normal' example the plane would take off.

Anyone who doesn't get the point that Neodude is making, clearly doesn't understand the problem as well as they think they do.

 

[neodude]

Thank you.