Donor Organs & People that do not deserve them

aproctor · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:00

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/10307324.stm

Reading this story made my blood boil.

The father of a woman who died after a double lung transplant said she would have been "horrified" to discover the organs were from a smoker of 30 years.

Basically the womans lungs were shot, she got some healthy lungs which would prolong her life, and instead of being grateful that she got a chance, (for free may i add) apparantly she would have been "horrified".

Now i appreciate why she didn't care for smoking as she had cystic fibrosis, but her father seems to be a grade a jobbie.

Frenzy · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:07

Smoker of 30 years had marginal lungs? I find that surprising.

james.miller · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:07

there is nothing free about living with cycstic fibrosis.

would i have accepted such lungs in a similar situation? dificult question. who's to say those lungs would have developed cancer 1 year down the line.

would you have accepted them?

and why didnt she deserve them?

bledd · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:10

It's about time we started growing organs, I need a new intestine

aproctor · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:14

james.miller said:
there is nothing free about living with cycstic fibrosis.

I appreciate your point, but that is not what i was getting at. I meant she got the transplant for free (which she has a right to)

would i have accepted such lungs in a similar situation? dificult question. who's to say those lungs would have developed cancer 1 year down the line.

Bare in mind her own lungs would not have lasted the year anything "healthy" is better than nothing and if they were cancer and disease free then i don't see it as a big issue.

would you have accepted them?

unless the waiting list was very very short (which i imagine it isn't) then yes. A smoker of 30 years is probably the average 45 year old smoker who died in a car crash or something equally tragic. They use the term smoker as if he was on 100 day. It could and proabably was only 10 a day

and why didnt she deserve them?
Assuming her fathers comments are true, gift horse and mouth come to mind.

JBuk · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:15

She doesn't deserve them because her father said she would have been horrified?

wut

james.miller · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:16

it could have been 5 day day, doesnt make an awful lot of difference. thats still 30 years of it, or a tad under 11k fags

it's like prolonging your life by signing a death warrant.

I dont think i'd be able to do that.

aproctor · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:16

bledd. said:
It's about time we started growing organs, I need a new intestine

Would you turn a new one down if you knew it was from a morbidly obese person who had eaten copious amounts of chargrilled red meat for 30 years?

james.miller · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:20

james.miller said:
it could have been 5 day day, doesnt make an awful lot of difference. thats still 30 years of it, or a tad under 11k fags it's like prolonging your life by signing a death warrant.

I dont think i'd be able to do that.

err, silly miscalculation there. it's not 11k fags. its 11k days. 5 a day = just under 55k fags. 10 a day? 110k fags.

would you want those lungs? honestly?

aproctor · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:22

james.miller said:
it could have been 5 day day, doesnt make an awful lot of difference. thats still 30 years of it, or a tad under 11k fags it's like prolonging your life by signing a death warrant.

I dont think i'd be able to do that.

Of course it makes a difference, do you think people who smoke 5 a day are at the same risk as someone who smokes 100 a day?

I've smoked near on 60k cigarettes and i am 23, are you saying you would turn my lungs away?

Imagine you have a heart transplant from a 50 year old who has eaten badly all his life, would you turn it down, or would you be grateful that you will live longer due to someone elses death.

In a perfect world we would have an abundance of perfect organs, harvested from 18 year old tee total, non smoking virgins with great genes, but in the real world everyone does something which is unhealthy, be it food, booze, drink or just a general lack of exercise, yet transplants seem to work, because the medical professionals use their knowledge and expertise to pcik the organs worth using.

james.miller · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:24

well, first off well done. That's a real achievement.

But quite seriously now are your lungs worse? possible now, yes. Are you more likely to recover if you stop smoking yes, you are more likely to have serious problems if you carry on smoking even lightly than smoking 40 a day for a few years and stopping.

Though i now know the reason for your stance on it as you are a smoker yourself.

Imagine you have a heart transplant from a 50 year old who has eaten badly all his life, would you turn it down, or would you be grateful that you will live longer due to someone elses death.

As i said, difficult decision accepting obviously poorly treated organs. I'd have to weight up the pain vs the extention of life, if it's at all predictable.

In a perfect world we would have an abundance of perfect organs, harvested from 18 year old tee total, non smoking virgins with great genes, but in the real world everyone does something which is unhealthy, be it food, booze, drink or just a general lack of exercise, yet transplants seem to work, because the medical professionals use their knowledge and expertise to pcik the organs worth using.

I'll tell you one thing, i would be absolutely livid if some doctor decided that pair of lungs subjected to 30 years of smoking was good enough for me without asking me. It's my life, i make the decisions. Yes to a certain extent beggers cant be choosers but that is unacceptable.

doctors should only make the choices when the patient and his/her family are unable to.

aproctor · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:30

james.miller said:
Though i now know the reason for your stance on it as you are a smoker yourself.

I'll tell you one thing, i would be absolutely livid if some doctor decided that pair of lungs subjected to 30 years of smoking was good enough for me without asking me. It's my life, i make the decisions. Yes to a certain extent beggers cant be choosers but that is unacceptable.

It's not the smoking aspect that annoys me, it's the attitude.

The example could be about any of the other reason i mentioned i.e. food, booze etc.

Once organs are transplanted they will still recover and she didn't smoke i imagine they would have lasted her longer than they would in the original owner, let alone her duffer lungs.

If it's not acceptable, then i hope you never need a transplant as i doubt you will get the perfect organs you strive for.

james.miller · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:33

aproctor said:
If it's not acceptable, then i hope you never need a transplant as i doubt you will get the perfect organs you strive for.

I never mentioned perfect organs. you must surely realise there's a HUGE grey area between 'perfect lungs' (if they exist) and those subjected to 30 years of smoking? not quite the same are they? not the same ballpark....not even the same game. It isnt black and white as you are trying to look at it. Not at all.

aproctor · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:33

james.miller said:
doctors should only make the choices when the patient and his/her family are unable to.

Rubbish, people 9/10 are idiots.

What medical knowledge do you have?

They have spent the best part of a decade training and then learn on the job, i imagine the worst doctor has a damn sight more knowledge about the anatomy than you.

aproctor · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:36

james.miller said:
I never mentioned perfect organs. you must surely realise there's a HUGE grey area between 'perfect lungs' (if they exist) and those subjected to 30 years of smoking? not quite the same are they? not the same ballpark....not even the same game. It isnt black and white as you are trying to look at it. Not at all.

If they are healthy, disease free, working lungs (unlike hers) i think she should be grateful.

james.miller · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:37

aproctor said:
Rubbish, people 9/10 are idiots.

What medical knowledge do you have?.

I dont need any medical knowledge. What i need is the truth and the respect to make my own decisions based on the facts presented to me as a patient.

what makes you think a doctor has the right to choose a pair of lungs over a patient? the point Allen Scott made was that yes his daughter was given the choice, but it wasn't a choice based on fact. She wasnt made aware of where the lungs came from and she should have been, and if she didnt want them? her choice, and its not a chocie she would have made easily.

9/10 people are idiots? no. But people who say that are, how incredibly naive.

They have spent the best part of a decade training and then learn on the job, i imagine the worst doctor has a damn sight more knowledge about the anatomy than you

Maybe it's worth you asking one of those doctors for their opinion then. It might suprise you.

Dark_Angel · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:38

Aproctor, your signature has fallen over.

GreatAuk · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:39

Ungrateful. If I was going to die pretty soon of cystic fibrosis, and having these new lungs could potentially extend my life, or improve quality of life, I'd be grateful! Why does this dad guy think that he knows better than the doctors when it comes to these organs.. People like him assuming they obviously know what's best and the professionals are obviously silly people who need to be constantly proved wrong really annoy me. Cases like this say a lot about societies lack of respect for anyone in a position of power or responsibility, purely because their uninformed judgement differs to the judgement of the professionals.

JBuk · 14 Jun 2010 at 18:40

james.miller said:
I dont need any medical knowledge. What i need is the truth and the respect to make my own decisions based on the facts presented to me as a patient.

what makes you think a doctor has the right to choose a pair of lungs over a patient? the point Allen Scott made was that yes his daughter was given the choice, but it wasn't a choice based on fact. She wasnt made aware of where the lungs came from and she should have been, and if she didnt want them? her choice, and its not a chocie she would have made easily.

9/10 people are idiots? no. But people who say that are, how incredibly naive.

Exactly, imo the fact they came from a longterm smoker is something I would want to know and probably many others

Bear · 14 Jun 2010 at 19:11

james.miller said:
I never mentioned perfect organs. you must surely realise there's a HUGE grey area between 'perfect lungs' (if they exist) and those subjected to 30 years of smoking? not quite the same are they? not the same ballpark....not even the same game. It isnt black and white as you are trying to look at it. Not at all.

Sorry but I think it is. If you need a transplant and you wouldnt survive without one then you should be gratefull about getting anything that will reasonably prolong your life. I'm not talking about accepting a diseased organ or one that is about to pack in but if at the time it works perfectly well and is not diseased then take it and shut up. Dont like it then you dont get it and go to the back of the waiting list, if you die before you get one that is to your liking then tough, it was your choice.

There is a large shortage of organs, so its ridiculous to start being fussy.

edit: It seems all you are asking for is the knowledge of the origin of the organ so you can make the choice to accept it or not. If that is the case then fair enough.