Starting up on a career in web design/development

[Shicky]

Was previously warned off this by friends with more wisdom when I was 17, they basically told me its difficult to get a decent wage in this field. I listened to this advice despite feeling like I have a bit of flair for web development and definitely enjoy it.

I think uni is just trying to carve me into a software dev monkey, which judging from the internships i've done, I would not enjoy as a fulltime career.

So if I am looking towards preparing myself for a career in web development, how should I prepare myself, considering im going into final year of a comp science degree.

Right now i've got some photoshop tutorials downloaded, as I have never really used it much. Also going to start learning php/mysql as it seems to be recommended here a lot. Essentially am I best making projects and therefore websites that I can use as a 'porfolio' as such? Im going to a summer internship position where it seems they want you to make a website, they mention coding it so it hits well on search engines, is this quite advanced?

Also by which stage should I consider myself ready to take small freelance jobs?

Finally im sure we have some professional web designers/devs on board, would they recommend it as a career?

 

[sist_si]

I've been a web & software dev for 10+years now and love my work. I'd say learning a programming language and DB development is essential if you want to get anywhere but it's a lot of time and work to learn the trade.
I wouldn't say I'm a designer though and I much prefer the buzz of coding a system from scratch than merely scripting.

 

[Shicky]

Can I ask the range of programming languages you find yourself using in daily life? Or I assume its mainly whatever is the best option for the project at hand?

Without prying to much would you consider your wage competitive to say a software developer working in the finance sector? Ignore of course if thats getting a bit personal

 

[Imy]

Web development can be quite enjoyable but you could earn a lot more being a software developer in the finance sector; especially if you get a share of the bonuses.

 

[Shicky]

Imy from TAA?

 

[BunnyKillBot]

Web development can be quite enjoyable but you could earn a lot more being a software developer in the finance sector; especially if you get a share of the bonuses.

And thats the reason i quit a computer science degree after year 1

The money might be good, but the work is soul destroyingly, catastrophically dull.

Essentially am I best making projects and therefore websites that I can use as a 'porfolio' as such?

If nothing else this will certainly 'evidence' your skills but make sure your proud of your work and its to your highest standards. I love web development because its a good blend between creative flair and coding. Make sure you take a web standards/accessability approach producing clean, clear, pages, efficient code and proper seperation of content and apperance (html/css)

Javascript can be an intimidating bag of bones at first esspecially if your used to better typeless scripting languages such as python, but once you wrap your head around it its essential for interactive pages. Get familiar with a framework such as MooTools which abstracts away allot of the awful symantics and gets you going some really cool stuff really quickly.
(html+css+javascript = ajax)

Php/mysql is good for dynamic content, but imo is often way, way overused when a simpler solution would suffice. Unless your wanting to rewrite vBulliten, or get involved with the myriad community dev projects I would say get comfortable with the ajax content side of things before worrying too much about php/mysql

Photoshop is essential for producing designs, and from designs placeholder images.

Dreamweaver is not essential, but it certainly helps. More so than the WYSIWYG asspect it is a very useful developer environment.

 

[fez]

And thats the reason i quit a computer science degree after year 1

The money might be good, but the work is soul destroyingly, catastrophically dull.



If nothing else this will certainly 'evidence' your skills but make sure your proud of your work and its to your highest standards. I love web development because its a good blend between creative flair and coding. Make sure you take a web standards/accessability approach producing clean, clear, pages, efficient code and proper seperation of content and apperance (html/css)

Javascript can be an intimidating bag of bones at first esspecially if your used to better typeless scripting languages such as python, but once you wrap your head around it its essential for interactive pages. Get familiar with a framework such as MooTools which abstracts away allot of the awful symantics and gets you going some really cool stuff really quickly.
(html+css+javascript = ajax)

Php/mysql is good for dynamic content, but imo is often way, way overused when a simpler solution would suffice. Unless your wanting to rewrite vBulliten, or get involved with the myriad community dev projects I would say get comfortable with the ajax content side of things before worrying too much about php/mysql

Photoshop is essential for producing designs, and from designs placeholder images.

Dreamweaver is not essential, but it certainly helps. More so than the WYSIWYG asspect it is a very useful developer environment.

Not sure if I totally agree with the above.

I would learn html/ css as the first step but it would definitely be php and mysql that would get my attention next.

Most every site you build will have some sort of db associated with it unless it is a very very basic static site.

Once you are ok with html and css you can also start having a dabble with javascript to do so cool effects. jQuery has revolutionised javascript and allows you to use AJAX and loads of visual effects ridiculously easily. Easiest way of impressing a client and turning out a site that looks greats nice and quickly.

 

[Xelene]

The pay is ridiculously bad in the Web Dev field, particularly for PHP developers. That's the reason I don't do it anymore except as a hobby. It's the same in game development, too large of a talent pool all after work means the employers can drive wages right down. It's also a skillset that gets readily outsourced to India & China.

 

[BunnyKillBot]

Most every site you build will have some sort of db associated with it unless it is a very very basic static site.

And most all db functionality required for most sites can be provided by off the shelf open source software. I'm not advocating a total reliance on OS software, but the emphasis should first and foremost be on good web design, not getting bogged down with over-ambitious projects.

The pay is ridiculously bad in the Web Dev field, particularly for PHP developers. That's the reason I don't do it anymore except as a hobby. It's the same in game development, too large of a talent pool all after work means the employers can drive wages right down. It's also a skillset that gets readily outsourced to India & China.

You have missed a key market here working with small businesses who are too intimidated by/cannot afford to work with the large web dev companies.

 

[Imy]

Imy from TAA?

Yes mate, wasn't sure if that was you; that's a name I've not heard in a long time!

Back on-topic though...

And thats the reason i quit a computer science degree after year 1

The money might be good, but the work is soul destroyingly, catastrophically dull.

My degree was in Computing (Networks and Communications); very similar to Computer Science and I still went into web development after. Employers seem to like that combo of IT skills and software development. As a senior web developer you're expected to know not only about coding but about project life-cycles, quality assurance, databases, networking and firewalls, hardware and the software platforms upon which websites run.

It's only in medium to large companies do those tasks start to be separated into different job roles. I'd hate to be doing just one thing all the time.

As for the other comments on the best way to learn I have to disagree and say stay away from frameworks and WYSIWYG interfaces. They may be a quicker way to knock out websites for a beginner but they don't help you learn core skills.

I've always found the best way to learn is to pick a GOOD project to work on. Something you're not going to loose interest in half-way through. Think about what it should end up looking like and what it should do. Then learn about all the things you need to as you go along. Learning for the sake of learning can be boring; you need goals.

 

[Imy]

Hey Shicky, you should be able to relate to this.

Guess what my final year uni project was... Remember UKCSL?

 

[Xelene]

You have missed a key market here working with small businesses who are too intimidated by/cannot afford to work with the large web dev companies.

Not everyone wants to run their own business.

 

[Imy]

A lot of web developers I know (myself included) either run a business full-time or have a day job and do freelance work on the side. It's kind of inevitable in this line of work.

BunnyKillbot is right about small businesses being a big target market. I earn around 2.5x more freelancing for small businesses than I earn in my day job. A larger web design agency in turn would charge at least £200/day more than me.

However the work is sporadic, hence why I haven't gone full-time yet.

 

[Shicky]

And thats the reason i quit a computer science degree after year 1

The money might be good, but the work is soul destroyingly, catastrophically dull.

This is my biggest fear going into IT. I am not exactly the typical computer science student. I love to travel, I do a ridiculous amount of training/sport, I seem to socialise a great deal more than people I have met in IT. I have done a few internships and frankly found them dull, I had bugger all work to do and the people were hard to relate to. As i said im more social than the average but building a rapport took a lot of effort and didnt seem to come much from their side. (obviously this doesnt apply to everybody in IT)

I think I could easily have success in any field I go into in IT. But I want to ENJOY my career, not be massively wealthy, though obviously both would be ideal. At the moment im looking into hybrid business/IT roles like business analyst, project management and even teaching ICT.

May I ask what you do now, how you came to do it?

 

[Shicky]

Hey Shicky, you should be able to relate to this.

Guess what my final year uni project was... Remember UKCSL?

Haha I remember you telling me that actually! Remember you seemed to be getting buggered for time with the freelance job on top. Not a position i would be overly keen to get myself into.

Can I ask what your full time role is? Or is it technically as a web developer, you just have a lot more responsibility ( as you mentioned networking etc )

The thing that made me do a U-Turn on the web development was in my last internship in a networking dept. I had contact with their web dev who was a girl in her 20s who they seemed to think was amazing....I saw her work and wasnt overly impressed. She was getting 25k a year and was soon to leave because she had been given a better offer elsewhere. From chatting to yourself and others, I didn't really think this was a sustainable career a few years ago and you would only survive if you were the best of the best as such. I say this as any average joe can develop his/her website, large companies will go to large IT companies, so it only leaves small-medium business as potential clients, with a huge amount of developers going for the contracts.

Thank you for all your advice in the thread, you seem to say things I had previously had in my head for the correct way to go about things. Hope you're well mate!

 

[Imy]

Yes I had to shutdown UKCSL due to time constraints in the end.

My job title is "Web Application Developer" but a lot of my daily tasks cross-over with sysadmin and DBA. We don't have a full-time sysadmin working here so me and the technical director share the workload. We do have a full-time DBA but most of the time it's just quicker to do it ourselves lol.

Hey if I found out someone average at their job was getting £25k I wouldn't be put off! That just means with a little effort you could be earning even more!

If the wages are an issue with becoming a PHP developer, consider .NET instead; the wages are a fair bit higher. For even more money get into Flex. I'm working on a freelance Flex project now and can charge more for it as there's not many Flex developers out there.

I think Flex developer is the highest paid developer role after embedded C.