A common view, but not a correct one. If you want someone to blame, look to the Labour benches.
Public sector pay freeze
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A common view, but not a correct one. If you want someone to blame, look to the Labour benches.
Not even the existing NHS Pension Scheme is Final salary let alone gold plated. It got changed a few years back. Someone people who are due to retire in the next few years will still get the better pension but the rest of us keep getting the ever changing pension. Mine has changed 3 times in just over 9 years. Gets worse and worse. I'm happy to pay more in to a pension no doubt i think my current level is about 6%.
The media have a lot to answer for the jump on any old bandwagon that will sell some papers or get more viewing figures and churn out garbage like its fact. Probably the best pensions in the land are MP ones no doubt forget about the rest of us plebs in normal public sector jobs.
This. Yesterday's budget was a breath of fresh air for me because this government seems to share that vision.
Having worked in the public and private sector in London i can comfortably say that the idea of lower public sector wages is often wrong, it depends on what exactly your job is though.
For example my previous public sector employer advertised a wage for job x (for example £40k). However what they didn't say was that there was a 'private sector wage parity scheme', which meant that for jobs that are difficult to recruit for due to private sector competition, they were allowed to bump up the salary to private sector levels (say £60k) whilst all the paperwork still said £40k.
That particular little rule was the norm where i worked, especially for higher up managers despite many of them being public sector lifers on crazy high pensions.
I think it's about time that the public sector was trimmed, I've witnessed the amount of waste first-hand, my major annoyance were the number of middle managers who were paid a lot of money despite being obviously not up to the job - they were in that position because that organisation rewarded length of service over ability - which isn't something you see very often in the private sector.
For example my previous public sector employer advertised a wage for job x (for example £40k). However what they didn't say was that there was a 'private sector wage parity scheme', which meant that for jobs that are difficult to recruit for due to private sector competition, they were allowed to bump up the salary to private sector levels (say £60k) whilst all the paperwork still said £40k.
That particular little rule was the norm where i worked, especially for higher up managers despite many of them being public sector lifers on crazy high pensions.
I think it's about time that the public sector was trimmed, I've witnessed the amount of waste first-hand, my major annoyance were the number of middle managers who were paid a lot of money despite being obviously not up to the job - they were in that position because that organisation rewarded length of service over ability - which isn't something you see very often in the private sector.
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Not sure where you worked but ive never heard of this 'private sector wage parity scheme'. I do know that in some areas they get a Recruitment and Retention Payment for certain hard to recruit jobs mostly in Cities as Cardiff is the only one i know of around here. But even that doesn't bump the pay anywhere close to private sector equivalent.
People who get the big money from my experience in an IT Dept apart from management are contractors. They get massive money and often end up doing a runner at the end of their contract with the money only to leave the cleanup to local IT staff who already have enough on their plate.
In fact most of my experience of private sector IT bods has been pretty terrible. i would hope we have been unlucky and its not the norm, but in most cases they tend to be people who can talk the talk but never walk the walk.
[edit] I assume you worked in London from your above post after re-reading it
and im guessing whatever you saw was definitely not the norm outside of London.
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Associate
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Not that brilliant when you consider the 12 hour shifts, working nights and weekends and the fact that the job involves getting a lot of abuse. You also spend most of your time ferrying people who don't need it to hospital because you aren't allowed to refuse if they insist...
And no doubt having to had worked a lot of years to get anywhere near that top end salary.
Associate
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Yeah, a lot of years, not quite sure how many, but it's band 5 in the NHS AFC pay scale
I'm sorry but the public sector pension IS gold plated in some respects.
Most people:
Pay into pension
Money Invested
At end, annuity (or other financial instrument) is bought with pot = pension.
Public sector:
Pay in
No fund
Pay for people in retirement now
There is a trillion pound deficit as what is paid in is less than what is paid out. There is no pot or fund, its a huge ponzi scheme where the short fall is paid by tax payers to the tune of 10bn a year.
If the public sector only took what it put in, people wouldn't be so bothered, but the tax payers are funding a big slice public sector pensions.
Most people:
Pay into pension
Money Invested
At end, annuity (or other financial instrument) is bought with pot = pension.
Public sector:
Pay in
No fund
Pay for people in retirement now
There is a trillion pound deficit as what is paid in is less than what is paid out. There is no pot or fund, its a huge ponzi scheme where the short fall is paid by tax payers to the tune of 10bn a year.
If the public sector only took what it put in, people wouldn't be so bothered, but the tax payers are funding a big slice public sector pensions.
Contractors don't "do a runner" at the end of their contract. If the contact is extended they stay, if not they leave. Simple. It's your employers decision and if their contract is up before the job is complete it's your employers responsibility to retain their services. Don't blame contractors for your employers shoddy practices. Same goes for having rubbish contractors on site - if you lot don't interview properly they you get what you deserve frankly.
Soldato
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- Inverkip
So you think that the emergency services are earning their pay by watching someone else do all the work? You think that £28k is too big a wage? You think last years 1% pay rise was disproportionate? You sir, appear to have been blinded by the media.
As defined by who? First level support is properly described there, but what about second-level support? And third-level? They are almost always a waste of good salary, but I'll bet that they think that they are vital revenue protectors.
It strikes me that the problem is not that the public services need a good cull, but that I'll bet money that all the wrong people get culled. As with all big organisations, the people who get given the job of deciding who goes are the middle managers, because the workers are too busy working, and the top echelons are too busy making bad decisions, or avoiding making them at all. But the middle managers are the ones who should be first out of the door. However, since they are hardly likely to make themselves redundant, they cut front-line staff, because a) it doesn't mean losing subordinates and thus status, and b) when front-line services collapse they have a good bargaining tool for more money.
M
And you, like most public sector workers, seem to think they are hard done by when in fact they don't realise how fortunate they are.
The public sector needs a huge axe taking to it. I don't envy this government in its task, because even the very modest measures announced yesterday resulted in predictable screams and whining from public sector unions who won't accept anything which slows down the gravy train.
A 25% cut to all government budgets except for health and foreign aid is not a modest measure. I wonder how you will feel about the rise in illegal immigration that will occur due to the already overstretched Borders Agency losing even more front line officials?
Yeh, well the current Band 5 has 8 Pay points so thats 8 Years before you even get to the top of a 5 and no doubt you didn't start on a band 5 coming in to the profession probably. To Reach the top of my current pay point would take me another 7 Years and ive already worked 9 years in the NHS.
These throw away comments you hear from people and the media are funny because they quote top end pay points for jobs that most people (a) aren't on and (b) if they are on have taken probably close to 15 - 20 years to get to.
Media has a lot to answer for imo.
Contractors don't "do a runner" at the end of their contract. If the contact is extended they stay, if not they leave. Simple. It's your employers decision and if their contract is up before the job is complete it's your employers responsibility to retain their services. Don't blame contractors for your employers shoddy practices. Same goes for having rubbish contractors on site - if you lot don't interview properly they you get what you deserve frankly.
Had numerous contractors from numerous companies of the last 9 years here and i can probably count on 1 finger how many good ones we have had. So im just going on what ive experienced.
Fair comment, but I repeat - if your employer hires poor contractors that's down to them.
Most public sector workers rarely moan, you hear a lot about Nurses pay when the Media fancy giving them some attention. What about all the other staff. We have for years / decades taken less pay and less pay increases then private sector and got on with it without much complaint.
The issue i currently have is this media led belief that all public sector are living the good life earning great money and fantastic pensions with no downsides. Its complete tosh.
The details of these cuts won't come until October so we'll have to wait and see their exact nature.
Indeed.
It really is amazing how many of the private sector don't actually realise what frontline services do.
They think that police just drive around in their cars with the sirens on, arresting robbers, putting them in prison and job done.
They think paramedics just drive around and ferry people to hospital.
They think teachers get to go home at 3.30pm and do nothing, whilst enjoying months of holidays.
The truth is, paramedics and police officers get spat on, abused, punched and have to see/experience some pretty grizzly things that would have a lot of people emptying their stomachs. Not only this, but the also have to work very unsociable hours which strain relationships with those outside of the job.
Teachers have to deal with little ****s all day who can be abusive and have to work v long hours without "overtime".
I work in the Private sector at the moment, and whilst the public sector undeniably has useless job titles, a lot of the frontline staff do a much tougher and more demanding job than a lot of people in the private sector
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