Public sector pay freeze

[[TW]Fox]

Yes, however that £32k still has to be paid for by tax receipts. If these are not coming from the private sector and general taxation then something needs to be done.

Lets fire all of them, have no public sector, and we can live in a utopia of hugely valued private sector employees, none of which are either overpaid or do pointless jobs.

 

[[TW]Fox]

My original point is that the public sector is a lot better paid than it was. You said it wasn't much money.

I said it wasn't bad, you kept going, so did i.

We'll be here all day if you want to claim £20k isnt bad money at 30. £20k is what you get when you come out of Uni, fresh with no experience.

 

[cymatty]

If you wish to think about it like this - and as a result your thinking is hugely flawed - you just cut the public sector wage bill by 30%.

Congratulations!

You would have to reduce the Income tax and NI receipts to reflect this so it wouldn't work quite as easy as you think.

 

[aproctor]

We'll be here all day if you want to claim £20k isnt bad money at 30. £20k is what you get when you come out of Uni, fresh with no experience.

Lots of people didn't go to uni etc and for many that is a living wage.

We are lucky, as are most on here that we can earn that salary from the get go.

 

[Judge Mental]

Yes buts its purely an accounting exercise, the government pays the wage and collects the tax. You are in essence paid a tax free amount.

How can it be a tax free amount when tax is collected from it?

 

[cymatty]

Lets fire all of them, have no public sector, and we can live in a utopia of hugely valued private sector employees, none of which are either overpaid or do pointless jobs.

I never said sack them all, I think you will see that my point is that if you work in the public sector your revenue is tax collected. If this is down then you need to do as the private sector do and make cutbacks.

 

[cymatty]

How can it be a tax free amount when tax is collected from it?

How can the government pay its own tax? It is just collecting money it has already paid out, its not hard to understand.

 

[aproctor]

I never said sack them all, I think you will see that my point is that if you work in the public sector your revenue is tax collected. If this is down then you need to do as the private sector do and make cutbacks.

Private sector wages is revenue collected, and people in the public sector still buy things.

Look at it like insurance.

 

[Destination]

With the hidden 25% budget cuts across government departments (except Health and Foreign Aid), if I were a public sector worker I'd be more concerned about staying employed than a pay freeze

LOL, you've hit the nail on the head, but many departments are overstaffed anyway, so it'll be interesting to see if management makes people gets their arses into gear and shift up.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[[TW]Fox]

How can the government pay its own tax? It is just collecting money it has already paid out, its not hard to understand.

So if you work for a company that was funded by government incentives or won a government contract you pay no tax either?

What about if you run your own business selling sandwiches and all your customers work in the local hospital, oh gnos, look, its like an accounting excercise.

Your argument is ridiculous and irrelevent.

 

[cymatty]

So if you work for a company that was funded by government incentives or won a government contract you pay no tax either?

What about if you run your own business selling sandwiches and all your customers work in the local hospital, oh gnos, look, its like an accounting excercise.

Your argument is ridiculous and irrelevent.

The first point yes

The second point could be argued as true but in a round about an obtuse way and is not as straight forward or obvious as my point.

Anyway as this wasn't my main point I will not spam the thread with anymore OT points.

 

[leaskovski]

Whereas now they get the lower pay *and* the increased risk. Kinda makes you wonder what the point is.

Sounds like a plan to devalue public sector jobs thus reducing the cost to local/national goverment?

 

[Richie]

I never said sack them all, I think you will see that my point is that if you work in the public sector your revenue is tax collected. If this is down then you need to do as the private sector do and make cutbacks.

Yes but the public dont want cutbacks that impact themselves.

They still want their refuse collected on time as before
They still want MORE cops on the street
They still want the Fire Service to rescue stupid cats up trees
They still want timely access to Healthcare

Unfortunately, the biggest bill for the Public Sector is wages so if you want to make any dramatic cuts then you need to make people redundant or reduce their wages, either way this will affect the points above....

The idea of savagely cutting back the public sector to the levels a lot of people want just will not work as people are selfish and wont want the cuts to affect their services....

 

[cymatty]

Private sector wages is revenue collected, and people in the public sector still buy things.

Look at it like insurance.

Yes but when there are 8m people out of work the revenue collected is down for both public and private sectors and both groups need to take action. Or do you propose we carry on borrowing money to pay for public sector wages?

Yes but the public dont want cutbacks that impact themselves.

Doesn't really matter what the public want if it is unfordable, pandering to peoples wants is what has lead to this mess.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I truely wonder how much money denying the public sector of their usual measly 2% a year (Below inflation, remember) pay rise is really going to save.

 

[rojones]

With the hidden 25% budget cuts across government departments (except Health and Foreign Aid), if I were a public sector worker I'd be more concerned about staying employed than a pay freeze

As has been mentioned by myself and probably others in other threads. Don't forget to make a public Sector employee redundant costs a lot of money. In my line of work its 1 months pay for every full year worked.

So i would imagine it will be temp contract employee's and the continuation of the jobs freeze (lots of freezing going on) and early retirement i would imagine. Otherwise its gonna cost the country a lot of money to simply payoff public sector employees like myself.

Even then i wonder how they expect the systems to continue operating, i know people like to Bash the public sector and ive said there are way too many management and middle management positions no doubt from my experience. But for example Im a part of a 6 man Infrastructure team supporting 8550 employee's as you can imagine that's pretty tough.

 

[cymatty]

I truely wonder how much money denying the public sector of their usual measly 2% a year (Below inflation, remember) pay rise is really going to save.

Quite a bit

The public sector pay bill amounted to £174 billion in 2008, representing 30% of all government expenditure or 12% of national income

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...AUQUllQ_j5a0NGuZg&sig2=CeMtfMw2InY8l0p9qsRrOg

The pension figures are even more worying

Whilst the press focuses on the public sector net debt of £850 billion, however the bigger elephant in the room is the Public Sector gold plated pensions liability of more than £1 trillion that already requires tax payers to fill the gap of near £10 billion per year of that between contributions and benefits that is destined to continue mushrooming ever higher that ultimately risks bankrupting Britain. The bottom line is that the public sector workers contribute 50% less than the pensions provisions made availabel to them, the gap being left for future tax payers to fill. The chancellor announced that John Hutton would provide an interim report on the public sector pensions crisis by September 2010.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article20512.html

 

[jas72]

I think the banks should pay. They are the ones who cocked it all up.

 

[Goberpiles316]

Take two weekly refuse collections, its possible and viable if done correctly, but now the Tories say its not good and advise to go weekly, if any authority moves back to weekly from two weekly that will put at least 300-500k onto the costs, where will that money come from.

Central government have put so much red tape in the way, I could sit here and right page after page on what we are forced to do and the money we are forced to waste, but it would be pointless.

 

[cymatty]

I think the banks should pay. They are the ones who cocked it all up.

They already do pay, lots, and will pay even more now.