Public sector pay freeze

[Defcon5]

The figures of 28-35k were mentioned by others.

If a job pays say £14k and there is someone willing to do it for £13k, or £12k, then according to simple market forces it is by definition paying too much.

I am willing to do your job for 13k. Are you over paid?

For any job, there will always be someone willing to do it for less.

 

[scorza]

The details of these cuts won't come until October so we'll have to wait and see their exact nature.

Nevertheless, a 25% cut to the immigration budget (which was confirmed yesterday, despite the media only caring about VAT) will not result in anything except worse performance in the immigration service.

 

[chriscpritchard]

I don't doubt that it is a tough job and I never said otherwise. It does however pay massively more than minimum wage jobs which are also often tough All the tougher for the crap standard of living you 'enjoy' on them.

I think that working for the emergency services is a tougher job than most jobs (minimum wage or not), I doubt any minimum wage jobs have the risks of being assaulted (verbally, or physically), witnessing stuff that most people would be unable to cope with and have such awful hours

 

[Gaygle]

I don't doubt that it is a tough job and I never said otherwise. It does however pay massively more than minimum wage jobs which are also often tough All the tougher for the crap standard of living you 'enjoy' on them.

Why do you keep using "minimum wage" as a benchmark of what fair pay is?

Perhaps people who are stuck on minimum wage should have worked harder in school? Perhaps gone to college and got a vocation? Maybe should have cared about getting a career and working hard?

If you are 25-30 and still on minimum wage, i don't think it's harsh to say that you must have done something wrong somewhere along the line.

 

[Gaygle]

I maintain that a load of jobs which pay anything over minimum wage are overpaid, due to the massive level of unemployment. If a job pays say £14k and there is someone willing to do it for £13k, or £12k, then according to simple market forces it is by definition paying too much.

And, wait, wasn't this what you used to argue against when the poles were coming over and STEELING OUR JOBZ!!!!111

 

[dirtydog]

Why do you keep using "minimum wage" as a benchmark of what fair pay is?

I already explained why. It makes no sense to have five million unemployed yet millions of low level jobs which pay significantly higher than that. In fact the minimum wage itself has been partly responsible for keeping unemployment so high. But this is possibly veering off the thread topic.

 

[izzy eckerslike]

Here's a good example of overpaying PS workers, the blokes that run along emptying our bins earn £18,700 + overtime sometimes available to catch up after holidays, the driver of the garbage truck earns £21,600, saw these job vacancies offered a few months back, both with pay award pending ( W.Midlands area)


Now compare UK arms forces pay for lower ranks & tell me where is the justice in that

Marine: Levels 5-9 Lance Corporal (or RM passed JCC) Level 6 £24,076.80 Level 6 £20,448.72
Army: Levels 1-7 – Private: Levels 5-9 - Lance Corporal Level 5 £22,959.72 Level 5 £19,628.52
RAF: Level 1 Aircraftmen & Leading Aircraftmen. Level 4 £20,765.04 Level 4 £18,624.72
Levels 2-9 – Senior Aircraftmen: Level 3 19,312.20 Level 3 £17,125.20
Level 5-9 Junior Tech/Senior Aircraftmen(T) Level 2 £17,492.16 Level 2 £16,676.04

 

[dirtydog]

And, wait, wasn't this what you used to argue against when the poles were coming over and STEELING OUR JOBZ!!!!111

Yes I did, and it isn't a contradictory position to take at all, quite the opposite.

And of course had those Poles been able to do many public sector jobs for minimum wage, they would have done. Of course they didn't, because most of those jobs weren't available for those low rates.

 

[Lord_Kokain]

I cant say for definite who out of public or private sector workers gets overal harder bargain but I can see how my local council pays starting salaries for certain not to key positions(e.g. receptionists 32k p.a,customer service operators 28k p.a) that in our company we would see as rather crazy. In addition,these workers do not have the same level of scrutiny about meeting targets or excellent customer service that the same type of workers have with us. This has prompted pretty much everyone to keep on trying to leave us and go for the council and the only person that succeeded so far was the one that happened to get recruited by her aunt who works for the council so its often about people not being able to land on the public sector job that makes them put up with the private one.

 

[dirtydog]

Here's a good example of overpaying PS workers, the blokes that run along emptying our bins earn £18,700 + overtime sometimes available to catch up after holidays, the driver of the garbage truck earns £21,600, saw these job vacancies offered a few months back, both with pay award pending ( W.Midlands area)

Indeed, sorry but binmen is about as simple a job as you can get and it should never pay above minimum wage. With five million unemployed and not to mention access to our job markets by Eastern European immigrants, there WILL be people willing to do it for that rate so why are we paying double that.

It is this sort of nonsense which has seen the government having to borrow half a billion pounds A DAY and why our national debt is heading for over a trillion pounds.

 

[chriscpritchard]

I already explained why. It makes no sense to have five million unemployed yet millions of low level jobs which pay significantly higher than that. In fact the minimum wage itself has been partly responsible for keeping unemployment so high. But this is possibly veering off the thread topic.

The whole point is, some public sector jobs AREN'T LOW LEVEL! I resent being told that a paramedic is a low level job, especially since I'm going to have to do a four year university course in order to become one, and they have a lot of skills, ranging from bandaging through to interpreting ECGs, needle cricothyrotomy and needle chest decompressions, on top of the driving skills and having to think outside the box on a regular basis (people have cardiac arrests in very awkward places)

 

[dirtydog]

The whole point is, some public sector jobs AREN'T LOW LEVEL! I resent being told that a paramedic is a low level job, especially since I'm going to have to do a four year university course in order to become one, and they have a lot of skills, ranging from bandaging through to interpreting ECGs, needle cricothyrotomy and needle chest decompressions, on top of the driving skills and having to think outside the box on a regular basis (people have cardiac arrests in very awkward places)

I didn't say paramedic was low level. I didn't say all public sector jobs are low level did I? (Sounds like a straw man.) However, binmen shouldn't be getting £20k. Receptionists shouldn't be getting £30k. Tube drivers shouldn't be getting £40k. And so on.

 

[chriscpritchard]

I didn't say paramedic was low level. I didn't say all public sector jobs are low level did I? (Sounds like a straw man.) However, binmen shouldn't be getting £20k. Receptionists shouldn't be getting £30k. Tube drivers shouldn't be getting £40k. And so on.

Yet you seem to be saying that emergency service workers should be getting the minimum wage :/

 

[FTM]

Do people in the public sector actually get increased pay simply due to increased length of service, regardless of merit?!

nope

you cannot go outside your paygrade due to length of service, you may get a career graded post that you move up bands but that will be linked to gaining professional qualifications (typically social work or environmental health/trading standards, or IT)

and any public sector cuts will now have knock on effects for the private sector now...stationary,office furniture,or projects such as road buillding/repair are often sub contracted out the the private sector, same as Decent Homes work on council homes, rewires, new heating systems..all of this work is contracted out. reduced budgets means reduced spending which means less work..especially important in areas with a ahigh density of council homes where there is probably not a lot of private work in the first place.

 

[The Mad Rapper]

When the public sector hires unproductive people or pays excessive salaries and pensions, I am paying for that.

From my previous experience of working in the Public Sector, the vast majority of the Civil Servants I worked with are lazy and incompetent, with no drive to succeed, or interest in delivering a quality service.

 

[rojones]

nope

you cannot go outside your paygrade due to length of service, you may get a career graded post that you move up bands but that will be linked to gaining professional qualifications (typically social work or environmental health/trading standards, or IT)

Also the last 4 or 5 pay points on a typical 9 pay point scale are only gained by progressing in your job by qualifications or other such targets.

 

[rojones]

From my previous experience of working in the Public Sector, the vast majority of the Civil Servants I worked with are lazy and incompetent, with no drive to succeed, or interest in delivering a quality service.

Must be true then

Forget about the rest of us who have bust a gut for many years with no thanks.

 

[The Mad Rapper]

Must be true then

Forget about the rest of us who have bust a gut for many years with no thanks.

It's true of the organisation I was at, I didn't say it was true across the Civil Service.

 

[dirtydog]

nope

you cannot go outside your paygrade due to length of service, you may get a career graded post that you move up bands but that will be linked to gaining professional qualifications (typically social work or environmental health/trading standards, or IT)

So you could get a pay rise simply for gaining a qualification, even though your duties and responsibilities may remain the same as before?

and any public sector cuts will now have knock on effects for the private sector now...stationary,office furniture,or projects such as road buillding/repair are often sub contracted out the the private sector, same as Decent Homes work on council homes, rewires, new heating systems..all of this work is contracted out. reduced budgets means reduced spending which means less work..especially important in areas with a ahigh density of council homes where there is probably not a lot of private work in the first place.

Yes this is true. However that doesn't mean it was wrong to make these cuts. Because the alternative is to keep borrowing at the same levels and instead of having pain now, you have much worse pain later.

We have been living beyond our means for many years, living today and charging it to the future. Well the future has arrived and it is time to start living within our means, or face a catastrophic collapse of our economy in the future - and then we really would have something to complain about.

 

[TheCenturion]

What's the matter, the average GP's £110,000 salary not enough for you? If you were in private industry, people would be calling for you to be over-taxed on that salary. Why do public sector workers think they are different?

I don't want to be a GP
And to be honest, the media is always attacking GP's and as such, their wage figures can be exaggerated somewhat