Public sector pay freeze

dirtydog · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:14

RDM said:
However in the private sector you can do something about it. In the public sector, you can't. If I receive consistantly poor service I can change supplier.

Sometimes you can, sometimes not.

RDM · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:16

[TW]Fox;16809304 said:
Except you wont, as like everyone else you'll pick the cheapest company for your insurance etc, and then whinge and moan about the morons in the call centre. Vodafone call centre people for example are particularly inept.

Actually, you are wrong, I have gone with more expensive quotes and contracts in the past due to service. I was with Zen Internet for years and paid over the odds for a net connection because it was a better service. I would still buy computer parts from OCUK even if I can find them for cheaper elsewhere because of the service. But there is that imporant distinction that I can also choose a worse service for a lower price if the service for that product is less important.

[TW]Fox;16809304 said:
Except in this thread, where suddenly every single privately employed person is a shining beacon of intelligence and helpfulness in a bizarre utopia dreamt up to suit your arguement.

Not at all, but I can avoid the muppets in the private sector or choose to deal with them.

Dave M · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:17

[TW]Fox;16809304 said:
Except you wont, as like everyone else you'll pick the cheapest company for your insurance etc, and then whinge and moan about the morons in the call centre. Vodafone call centre people for example are particularly inept.

Straw man, when do we get to the nazis?

RDM · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:17

dirtydog said:
Sometimes you can, sometimes not.

The vast majority of cases you can and the few that you can't tend to be badly privatised ex public services where a public monopoly was replaced with a private monopoly...

[TW]Fox · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:18

Telescopi said:
Yes but with the public sector you're stuck with them, with private firms you vote with your wallet.

In the textbook, yes. In the real world, no.

Sky annoy you with crap customer service. What do you do? Nothing, nobody else can provide you with satellite television in this country, for example.

Almost all of the large service providers have universally useless customer service. Very few stand out as a shining beacon of efficiency. Usually, people on here moan about them day in day out yet suddenly its all lovely and the service is great and if it isnt you all just move suppliers?

Yea, pull the other one.

Morons are morons - it doesnt matter who employs them.

dirtydog · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:19

RDM said:
The vast majority of cases you can and the few that you can't tend to be badly privatised ex public services where a public monopoly was replaced with a private monopoly...

Yeah that was what I was thinking of

eg. I only have one choice for my water and telephone suppliers. Or if I want to get a train into London there is only one operator on that route. Etc.

[TW]Fox · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:20

Telescopi said:
Straw man, when do we get to the nazis?

The Dolph school of debating doesn't work for everyone, infact it often doesn't work for him.

Giving examples of private sector organisations offering poor customer service is not a 'strawman' argument against people claiming only public sector organisations offer poor customer service.

Klo · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:20

I get around said:
Top earners and bankers have a lot of money to burn, you average public sector worker doesn't.
Most of them get paid to much for doing nothing anyway, oh I'll sit behind a desk on a computer and fanny about with peoples money. Wow, hard work, not.

Yes, like you know what goes on in a bank.

Dave M · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:22

[TW]Fox;16809354 said:
In the textbook, yes. In the real world, no.

Oh shush I've seen more real world than you so stop trying to be the grown up.

I switched from ADSL to Virgin because my line is poor - no complaint against my ISPs (tried Zen and Nildram), they were great, but the line was just bad on the ADSL they had back then.

So I went to NTL, very happy with their Internet thanks. Even took up the TV option as I couldn't be bothered with bad reception on Freeview.

I could have had Sky but don't want a dish.

If I change my mind again I can try Freeview or Freesat.

If Virgin Internet goes bad on me I can try Be/O2 which have LLU in my exchange now, or even see what BT is offering again.

Choices, I have them.

I won't pretend there aren't some services I don't have a choice over, they have monopolies and I can't do without them, but they are few and far between and usually well regulated.

Dave M · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:24

[TW]Fox;16809367 said:
The Dolph school of debating doesn't work for everyone, infact it often doesn't work for him.

You offered up a fictional person who puts up with shocking service and never changes supplier for anything.

This person probably doesn't exist and is irrelevant to the argument that private enterprise gives people more choice.

If it isn't a straw man what is it?

[TW]Fox · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:24

So which mobile phone provider offers you fantastic and efficient customer service?

I am not disputing you have choice, I am saying that none of the large mainstream providers offer customer service thats brilliant, so why single out the public sector for being unique in that regard when its clear they are not?

Great, you can chose between 6 mobile providers, all of which offer pretty naff customer service. Go choice.

Efour · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:31

I met a young couple that earned £120k each (£240k family income lol) both in the late 20s, both Essex minded, typical London trader types.
I also worked, temped 6 months, for a ABN Amro, they have merged now. in Bishopsgate.

They dealt with silly amounts of money daily and relatively speaking their pay was a small fraction of it. But the whole system was lousy, everyone scratches each others backs to get their share. It was all schmoozing clients and BSing with cockney charm.

JamesU2005 · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:31

You have to take pity on those that believe every Public Sector worker is this caricature that the media paints them to be i.e. lazy, complainers, money grabbing, selfish socialists.

One should not believe everything one reads in a newspaper.

The fact of the matter is, this public sector pay freeze will have a negative effect on those in this industry and the number of people applying for these jobs will probably fall.

dirtydog · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:34

JamesU2005 said:
The fact of the matter is, this public sector pay freeze will have a negative effect on those in this industry and the number of people applying for these jobs will probably fall.

Yeah it's a given that those affected will be a bit worse off than they would have been, we know that

Funnily enough I don't think there will be any shortage of applicants for any new positions that arise though

The Mad Rapper · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:34

[TW]Fox;16809401 said:
So which mobile phone provider offers you fantastic and efficient customer service?

I am not disputing you have choice, I am saying that none of the large mainstream providers offer customer service thats brilliant, so why single out the public sector for being unique in that regard when its clear they are not?

Great, you can chose between 6 mobile providers, all of which offer pretty naff customer service. Go choice.

That's subjective isn't it? Everyone will have different experiences, it just sounds like you've been unlucky.

I've been with Orange for 10 years at least. I've never had a problem with them, any issues have been addressed quickly and they've been professional and helpful when I've called them. I'm not really sure what else one can expect?

Moley · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:36

[TW]Fox;16809285 said:
Yea, whatever.

Not a week goes buy without a thread on here complaining about 'call centre muppets', most of which work for private sector companies. And why wouldnt it, given we hardly put the creme of our workforce on the end of a phone, do we?

Lazy and unhelpful people exist in all walks of life.

I refer the honourable gentleman to post #175 where I made this point already myself.

Dave M · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:36

[TW]Fox;16809401 said:
Great, you can chose between 6 mobile providers, all of which offer pretty naff customer service. Go choice.

Jumping ship makes you feel better, being trapped isn't good for the soul.

The Mad Rapper · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:37

Efour2 said:
I met a young couple that earned £120k each (£240k family income lol) both in the late 20s, both Essex minded, typical London trader types.

That's actually not a massive salary in the City. You're right about the social aspect though, working a full day then taking clients to strip clubs gets boring fast I'd imagine.

leaandluke · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:38

[TW]Fox;16809401 said:
So which mobile phone provider offers you fantastic and efficient customer service?

I am not disputing you have choice, I am saying that none of the large mainstream providers offer customer service thats brilliant, so why single out the public sector for being unique in that regard when its clear they are not?

Great, you can chose between 6 mobile providers, all of which offer pretty naff customer service. Go choice.

How can you speak for the population saying that private sector customer service is naff?!?!

[TW]Fox;16809401 said:
So which mobile phone provider offers you fantastic and efficient customer service?

Orange have always been fantastic and efficient in my experience.

RDM · 23 Jun 2010 at 13:38

JamesU2005 said:
The fact of the matter is, this public sector pay freeze will have a negative effect on those in this industry and the number of people applying for these jobs will probably fall.

And your solution is what exactly? Just keep raising taxes on those in the private sector?