Where are all these jobs gonna come from?

[Indy500]

As soon as I read the title I knew the usual idiots would crawl out of the woodwork, using their keyboards as intellectual hammers to wage a crusade against the unemployed.

First off, it isn't a homogenous, unshifting group. There is also a big distinction between JSA claimants costing £2bn and the disability claimants costing much more with different checks applied. I would hope that much was obvious though...

Secondly, lots of skilled, intelligent people have lost their jobs due to mismanagement, bad allocation of capital and outsourcing to the East (particularly IT and telecoms).

Thirdly there are younger folk who have entered the job market recently and are at a disadvantage due to perceived lack of experience. In the short term, they aren't going to go starve because some holier-than-thou person told them they shouldn't claim JSA as its immoral. Having the means to eat comes above some random's opinion.

Finally, a good chunk of people could be self-employed if it weren't for obscene levels of occupational licensing. I pointed out BICS as an example but nearly every profession requires some kind of certificate or degree these days. These may or not be necessary, but they do immediately create a negative perception of those without said certificates as not suitable.

I don't like the current welfare system or public sector but I don't think the government (I hate that word) is giving us real solutions...

 

[drunkenmaster]

Ok, so the government is trying to get people off benefits and into work: great in theory but where are all these jobs to come from for all these thousands of unqualified/uneducated citizens?

It's all very well saying "we need to get people off benefits and into work" but the jobs aren't there anymore ........ we don't manufacture very much that is labour intensive and there are only so many road sweeping/shelf filling/labouring jobs, so where are all these people going to find employment?

This is a serious question .... very little building going on, very little work in agriculture, no where near enough 'menial' jobs out there for the masses so where are these jobs coming from that we expect benefit claimants to take up?

Come on solve the problem ....

Reduce immigration, get benefits workers back into crap jobs basically, burger king, street sweeping, garbage men are pretty well paid from what I recall. Cleaners, tesco truck drivers(most seem to be polaks at the moment).

We've all but wiped out the industry in this country, then handed all the crap jobs over to immigrants. I'm not against immigration, but its daft to have no limits, we have a shrinking number of useful production profit generating jobs and then bring in more people who also need work on top.

WE need to curb population growth, because more people and less jobs is a bad mix, which includes disuading people from having large families and limiting immigration because both cause population growth.

Meanwhile we need to drop corp taxes, and taxes in general on the uber rich because thats how you encourage profitable industry in a country.

I'll say it again, New York State, a country in massive debt, bad management is increasing taxes, you make it a very poor idea to build a new factory there. NYS has a 8billion new AMD fab being built there, along with something like several thousand construction jobs, thousands of houses, services, roads, sewage works being built as there will be another several thousand jobs when it opens next year.

In normal circumstance it would cost next to nothing to build this fab in the UAE, seeing as they are paying for it and can tax themselves nothing. So NYS offered them massive tax cut incentives, to make the actual Fab far more profitable than it would normally be in that part of the world.

SO they lose a few hundred million a year in taxes, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE if the fab wasn't there and gain a few hundred million in taxes they do get. On top of that you've got new jobs, new roads needing to be maintained, so new jobs there, new cinemas, houses, estate agents, gardeners, cable/telecoms networks to install and maintain. All those jobs add several hundred more millions and offer a way to get people into profit making jobs.

So basically the UK should be offering deals all over the place to companys to keep them, or encourage them to come here.

Lets take another example, lets say GSK pay 1billion in taxes a year, we can try and make more money with taxes, and make them pay 1.2billion a year, in which case, with a loss of profits they won't be creating new jobs and might just decide to up and leave and move to India, so we don't gain the 200million, we lose 1billion.

What we could do is drop taxes, make them pay 800million a year, this means moving to India isn't worth the hassel, and with 200million extra profit, they can afford to expand, create 200milllion in extra jobs, get 1000 people into private sector jobs and 1000 people out of public sector jobs. But because people like lower taxes, and growth and expansion, the move also encourages 10 more companies its profitable to build a manufacturing plant here, so we don't lose 200million, we gain 10 billion in all the new taxes from all the new jobs.

Tax CUTS are the route to growth in jobs, tax increases are the route to losing more and more jobs.

WE're in a catch 22 right now, we can't afford to cut taxes with such debt and massive deficit, Labour screwed us for at least a few years, probably 5-10 years before we can really push hard for big growth and new policy of growth all around. For now we should go after single deals like with AMD, find out who needs a new plant(samsung are expanding HUGE right now) and basically bribe them to build here and make jobs here.

 

[SlugForAButt]

As soon as I read the title I knew the usual idiots would crawl out of the woodwork, using their keyboards as intellectual hammers to wage a crusade against the unemployed.

First off, it isn't a homogenous, unshifting group. There is also a big distinction between JSA claimants costing £2bn and the disability claimants costing much more with different checks applied. I would hope that much was obvious though...

Secondly, lots of skilled, intelligent people have lost their jobs due to mismanagement, bad allocation of capital and outsourcing to the East (particularly IT and telecoms).

Thirdly there are younger folk who have entered the job market recently and are at a disadvantage due to perceived lack of experience. In the short term, they aren't going to go starve because some holier-than-thou person told them they shouldn't claim JSA as its immoral. Having the means to eat comes above some random's opinion.

Finally, a good chunk of people could be self-employed if it weren't for obscene levels of occupational licensing. I pointed out BICS as an example but nearly every profession requires some kind of certificate or degree these days. These may or not be necessary, but they do immediately create a negative perception of those without said certificates as not suitable.

I don't like the current welfare system or public sector but I don't think the government (I hate that word) is giving us real solutions...

I've read your post a couple of times and I don't understand what your point is.

 

[Allnamestaken]

^^^ This!


Well the post above the one above mine lol.

 

[rypt]

WE're in a catch 22 right now, we can't afford to cut taxes with such debt and massive deficit, Labour screwed us for at least a few years, probably 5-10 years before we can really push hard for big growth and new policy of growth all around. For now we should go after single deals like with AMD, find out who needs a new plant(samsung are expanding HUGE right now) and basically bribe them to build here and make jobs here.

The other problem we have is that many Brits are leaving, even if there are jobs here, simply because they want to live somewhere else due to other issues (political, cost of living, what ever else).
That is also something that needs to be reversed, and the factors that make skilled people decide to emigrate minimised (I'm fairly certain that I'd be out of here a few years after I get my Masters next year)

So overall we not only need tax cuts all round, but we also need to start changing the society and political climate to make it nicer for people to stay here rather than go to other places that have weather, or society, or political advantages over us.

 

[zipp0r]

maybe create jobs that ONLY the people coming off benefits can apply for or even be guarenteed a job?

 

[Indy500]

I've read your post a couple of times and I don't understand what your point is.

That bashing the unemployed as all unqualified or lazy, is simplistic and ignorant without trying to understand what is harming job creation here or where a net loss of jobs happened.

If you didn't get that part then I'm not sure what to say to you...

I'd say that I largely agree with drunkenmaster's line of reasoning, we should be encouraging investment here.

 

[Monkeynut]

BIG SNIP

The thing is of course, selective cuts to companies which aren't already here would make a lot of sense. If AMD for example were given a tax cut to build a fab in Britain, say the north or somewhere, they will still be handing over SOME tax money, as well as getting people off of the state handouts. I.E being here paying less tax is better than not being here at all. I'm not disagreeing with you - I just thought I'd add that.

There's also an issue in Britain though of the Unions messing everything up demanding all sorts of things.

 

[SlugForAButt]

Why couldn't you simplify it in the first place so we could get it? Maybe you just prefer complicating it so you think you sound superior.

I didn't get that part of your post as it was so intentionally over complicated.

And you obviously think I am ignorant because I think the majority (not all) of unemployed people could do more. And before you slate me as ignorant, you should meet the people I see every day in my area.

 

[arknor]

a lot of these immigrants are willing to do jobs that us brits look down upon or seem to think were too good for blame it on the attitude of quite a lot of the unemployed the ones who complain when some foreign person gets a job that they were not willing to do in the first place. What can you do its there retarded attitude.

a lot of these jobs like squash picking have crap wages that havent been increased with inflation because immigrants will do it for peanuts and a roof its no surprise english people wont do them

 

[Windle]

a lot of these immigrants are willing to do jobs that us brits look down upon or seem to think were too good for blame it on the attitude of quite a lot of the unemployed the ones who complain when some foreign person gets a job that they were not willing to do in the first place. What can you do its there retarded attitude.

Then you have the honestly legitimate people who are unemployed and cant find work but they will in time they always do but the majority of them are the former lol.

Usualy younger people as well who have that attitude. -_-

I remember watching a TV Programme that tried to tackle this issue, they rounded up several dole scroungers and found them jobs that a lot of immigrants were doing. Mushroom/fruit picking etc, fair play it's hard graft but they were actually earning reasonably decent money for it (reasonable whack above minimum wage).

The dole scroungers response?
" I'm nae daeing that, I'm nae picking fruit! That's a skivvy job! "

If I was unemployed, I'd do anything that was going and have done in the past. One of the job highlights was working on a production line at Compaq, I stood at the end of a line and lifted completed Desktop PCs and packed them in boxes. This was back in the days when cases were built like safes too, weighed a ton and I had to lift hundreds of cases each day. It hurt, my arms ached, it was boring but I got paid reasonably decent money to do it. I got time and a half on Saturdays and double time Sundays. It did until I got something better. I'd do it all again.

Fingers crossed, the lower corporation taxes and incentives for new businesses (First 10 employees NI etc) gets a bit of a recruitment drivre and they can shift some benefits folks into work.

 

[Allnamestaken]

^^ Exactly Ive done it before!! When i needed to do ****ty jobs i did them Im 21 I was a centre manager for a community centre in London. I did lots of unpaid volentary work and youth work before i got that job was on around £26k.

Funding went up and down here and there but in the end a lot of people in upper managment and even my centre got made redundant but they were replaced with people who could not even really compare to the ones they replaced left. I moved out of London To Ipswich where im currently staying looking for a more permanant job while looking to finish UNI. I

I actualy wouldnt have any issues doing menial jobs just to pass time and add more £££ in my bank account and im not reliant on benefits or the lot ive supported myself since i was 18 I've only just recently had the good fortune of staying with the mums as she left her ex and i wanted to support you know.


It all comes down to attitude if these gits want to get anywhere they need to do anywork they can get its a start and it gets you somewere.

 

[Glaceon]

Do what Ankh-Morpork does. Make guilds of people that cause problems. I.e. Guild of Vadalizers that have a smash window quota, and a Guild of Thieves so people have to buy more possessions and repair things. Lol.

 

[Allnamestaken]

Lmao^

 

[Glaceon]

Of course there are graduate jobs, right next to the Poles on the production line.
Another magnificent Labour success is having almost every kid come through school and "University" and then expect a great job when the market is saturated with degrees that mean nothing 'cause every kid has one.

Then get a 1st and do an extra 1 year for a masters, too. 1 year it nothing, and to get a masters from a good University you'd need a good undergraduate degree You can stand out from the crowd with a bit of effort, even if you don't start at a good University - but prove you wanted to move up by finishing at one.

 

[Glaceon]

Lmao^

Then again, discworld's Ankh-Morpork isn't exactly a great city.

 

[Amp34]

Then get a 1st and do an extra 1 year for a masters, too. 1 year it nothing, and to get a masters from a good University you'd need a good undergraduate degree You can stand out from the crowd with a bit of effort, even if you don't start at a good University - but prove you wanted to move up by finishing at one.

True, the extra year is nothing. The £15-20k you need if you don't get a scholarship is slightly harder to come by...

I got a 2:1 from a reasonable uni (2nd best poly in the country) in a reasonable subject (a proper science) but still found it difficult to get a job, however I have managed to get onto one of the best masters courses in my area. The only reason I can afford to go is because I'm lucky enough to have parents that can loan me the money I need...

If I graduate and still have difficulty getting a reasonable job then that is a massive waste of money and time.

5-6 years and £50k invested in education to stack shelves is really something I don't want to be doing...

We need to decrease the number of uni places in this country and start pushing people back into apprenticeships etc. There are certain courses that you need to do a degree in, a huge amount of others you really dont and you should be much better off just doing an apprenticeship or working your way up. Schools need to stop lying to students about uni and their prospects and uni needs to become a place to study again, not just somewhere to **** around for 3-4 years and get a degree as a by product!

 

[kwerk]

Put them all in the army, then declare war on Scotland. They can pay them with the spoils of conquest (irn-bru and tunnocks tea cakes).

 

[delight01]

That's the global problem. Unemployment.

 

[neil3k]

do what hitler did

get them building public improvement works