Advice on starting an I.T career

I work in IT as "technical services manager" ... I currently do a wide range of stuff from coding, server hardware, OSs, systems integration, SQL databases, database interfaces, project management, customer relations and support 1st/2nd line. I've been in the industry for 11.5 years and have been to Uni in Australia with a Bachelors degree.

A degree is good and its not bad to have as a graduate but it is not necessary. Your first job will depend on what you "know" ... ie. what you put on your CV (whether it be certifications or an honours degree) and how well you do your interviews. You'd be surprised at the number of IT managers who are not techies so a bunch of qualifications will impress someone.

Anyone telling you that to get a foot into IT is to do a 1st line support role is the worse advice. 1st line support involves taking a phone call and reading a bunch of options on the computer screen in 75% of 1st line support roles .... for IT support it is not that technical and it basically what you can do now at home playing with your machines/software. Most people on 1st line support desks aren't there for IT experience ... they are there to earn money. It is also one of the most depressing jobs, taking ******** from customers who aren't IT literate and dealing with muppets.

To get a career in IT, first as a graduate or someone who is starting up is certainly try some of the Cisco or Microsoft Certifications .... most of the MS stuff isn't worth toilet paper to experienced people but they are good for that first interview. I've seen many CVs with qualifications a mile long but that don't count for anything unless you're good in your interview and you've got good problem solving skills. A career in IT is like being a detective, you have to look for things, research and accumulate knowledge.

After a few years on the job, you'll pick up things ... and hopefully retain some other skills in the process. After your first job, it all counts on experience whether you have a degree or not.

Another word of advice, you do not need a degree to learn a programming language. You can pick up many books that teach you quite easily and the web has lots of code samples. A degree is good for learning a lot of theoretical stuff and to also ehance your understanding of the concepts of specialist areas such as databases, networking technologies, distributed computing, AI, etc. In end the it all comes down to the person and the willingness to learn, absorb knowledge, adapt to situations and to not give up when you hit a dead end (most times there are more than 1 solution to an IT problem!)
 
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If I had a chance to do things all over again, I would have stayed out of Computing/IT and gone into accountancy/medicine/law.

IT these days is a lot of low grade desktop support, followed by a career progression gap where it's all outsourced to India.
 
There's hundreds of different career paths within the IT Industry, it's litterally MASSIVE! Anyway best advice for you is to find an area that interests you as most areas will not. Do some research into what that area involves. What qualifications are needed etc. And then make your choice. You're at the right to make a choice which career path you'd like to go down. By all means you can change in a few years if something else interests you, but you may end up having to retrain for different things.
 
I did 5 months at Zenos and came away for all the qualifications it offerered, plus some more.. they helped me find a job straight afterwards.. now I have 8 months 1st/2nd Line Support under my belt (it's there aim to get you job afterwards.. they even help me out now!)
 
If there's one way to kill your IT enthusiam. It's getting a job working with computers. It will grind you down until you wished you followed another vocation path.

Unfortunately - even the suggestion of getting a trade (Plumber/Joiner/Spark etc) is not really much better these days (as there are very little vacancies and regular pay isn't what it used to be)

I had your dream about 15 years ago - and lived to regret it. Luckily I managed to switch trades altogether but still manage to love tinkering with PC related stuff.

Did IT at college, got an apprenteship and stopped because I didn't really like it. Started on a electrical course about 2 years ago, finished my qual, and college are shooting us off saying we can't do our third year.

exactly what he said.

though I'm sticking with electrical installation because I find it more enjoyable.
 
If there's one way to kill your IT enthusiam. It's getting a job working with computers. It will grind you down until you wished you followed another vocation path.

Same.

Became programmer, had to sit through so much crap I already new and spent so much time studying and playing on computers I had enough so close to the end but stayed the course as it would be a total waste of time, met woman and got a life.

Never bothered to go into IT, and I'm glad. Still to this day.
 
Same.

Became programmer, had to sit through so much crap I already new and spent so much time studying and playing on computers I had enough so close to the end but stayed the course as it would be a total waste of time, met woman and got a life.

Never bothered to go into IT, and I'm glad. Still to this day.

I became a programmer, but I was prescient enough NOT to pick a computer science degree for the above reasons, so I did a BA in Systems Analysis instead, only one core module of which was programming.

I'm still a programmer 15 years later, every time I get threatened with promotion to something more managerial I quit.

:)
 
I did 5 months at Zenos and came away for all the qualifications it offerered, plus some more.. they helped me find a job straight afterwards.. now I have 8 months 1st/2nd Line Support under my belt (it's there aim to get you job afterwards.. they even help me out now!)

This. ;)

I too went to Zenos and to be honest, if you don't fancy going to Uni and want to get some entry level qualifications into the IT industry then go for it. When I was there, if you were between 16-19 then its goverment funded. You also have to treat it a lot more like a place of work and this helps when going for jobs because shows you are committed. But if you just left school and landed yourself a job you may not be used to even the most trivial things when working. :)

Here is a bit of bed time reading: :o
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11859576#post11859576

And what to exactly NOT think like:
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=16843514#post16843514

One piece of advice though - try and get a drop that involves your IT skills/ethics but isnt directly doing support ie, helpdesk or just a shop engineer. For me, I much prefer project work. :)
 
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I won't make any friends by saying this but most of the great IT folk I know either have no degrees and started out in different careers before moving to IT or have completely non-IT related degrees. I'm not sure why but the ones with utterly brilliant analytical and troubleshooting skills come from non-IT based courses or more engineering backgrounds.
 
Dont bother, i'm stuck in a training role with crap money and five years experiance because I refuse to constantly study so i'm stuck here and my Brother who has just got a degree in computer science cant get a a job due to lack of experiance.

IT has been milked, rogered and riddled for the last ten years, be a plumber.
 
I won't make any friends by saying this but most of the great IT folk I know either have no degrees and started out in different careers before moving to IT or have completely non-IT related degrees. I'm not sure why but the ones with utterly brilliant analytical and troubleshooting skills come from non-IT based courses or more engineering backgrounds.
Completely agree.

It's all about experience. The vast majority of the devs I've worked with have no IT qualifications - heck I don't even have an A level. One guy who did have a degree was beyond ******* useless. Knew all the theories about software design, but couldn't build a reliable system if his WOW account depended on it.

You really do need to get in at the ground floor (avoiding support if possible) and work up.
 
Dont bother, i'm stuck in a training role with crap money and five years experiance because I refuse to constantly study so i'm stuck here and my Brother who has just got a degree in computer science cant get a a job due to lack of experiance.

IT has been milked, rogered and riddled for the last ten years, be a plumber.

If you cannot be bothered to train what do you expect?

your brother has a degree but for a lot of roles that is almost as bad as no qualifications at all... MCSE (or ccna etc) > Degree 75% of the time....
 
Did your brother get at least a 2:1?

...and where did he get his degree from?

Unemployment rates for comp sci grads is the highest, but still only 17-18% I believe. Which means that 4/5 (or most) of the comp sci graduates do actually end up with jobs.

If you are applying for jobs that require experience of course you'll be knocked back for not having any experience, if only companies did schemes where they hired fresh graduates, without any experience, and trained them up...
 
I did 5 months at Zenos and came away for all the qualifications it offerered, plus some more.. they helped me find a job straight afterwards.. now I have 8 months 1st/2nd Line Support under my belt (it's there aim to get you job afterwards.. they even help me out now!)

I went on a Zenos course which was free when i was at a previous job, they were quite good to be honest although the courses were aimed at school leavers or people with little experience. I got;

Level 3 Advanced Diploma for IT practitioners
Level 3 NVQ for IT professionals

which was during work hours so i cant complain :D
 
Ah the predictable back lash I was expecting, what the degree grade is and where it was from is not relevant, a degree in any other field will get you a job but in IT with Admin jobs going for £14k a year and what they expect for that £14k is jokes. You can earn more in Tesco's stacking shelves

I didnt say I cannot be bothered to train, I said I refuse to constantly study, I have trained and have proof, Microsoft certified courses and NVQ's etc but still cant get a job earning anywhere near what I was earning as a sales monkey sat on the end of a phone all day
 
That's the name of the game with most vocational jobs though.

Yup, agree with that.

This is the part I don't understand about people getting "bored" with IT. It's constantly shifting, there's ALWAYS something new to study or learn about, it's one of the most dynamic vocations you could possibly choose.

My current job as a developer is pretty much unrecognisable compared to the job I was doing 5 or 6 years ago:

VB6/ASP/C++ -> C#/J#/Java/F#/Scala/ASP.Net/WCF/WPF
Waterfall -> Agile/Lean/Scrum/Kanban
weekend/month-end builds -> CI
6 monthly releases -> daily releases

If you aren't prepared to be constantly training and re-training yourself with new technology then you are definitely better off somewhere else.
 
Dont bother, i'm stuck in a training role with crap money and five years experiance because I refuse to constantly study so i'm stuck here and my Brother who has just got a degree in computer science cant get a a job due to lack of experiance.

IT has been milked, rogered and riddled for the last ten years, be a plumber.

I don't mean to be rude but with such a 'can't be bothered' attitude you aren't likely to succeed in many occupations. I study what I need to learn and after 15 years working in IT I love my current job more than ever. If you can't be bothered to study then of course you'll be stuck doing the same thing day in and day out until whatever you look after becomes completely obsolete, then you'll have no job and no knowledge to fall back on. I've seen it happen many times to people with the same attitude.
 
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