Recommendation for a HND Computing Graduate
- Thread starter tony888
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[TW]Fox;17008017 said:
Indeed I couldn't agree more, IT Support who consider themselves technically competent irritate me no end.
Unfortunately SLA's are more often generated by the senior management or in the contracts between businesses. They have an irritating preponderance on any daily work.
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I don't really understand what your issue is with what I'm saying? You just keep saying my views aren't in balance with the real world. But why? I need some explanation for this to be able to respond really.
More or less everybody in this thread suggested to the OP to continue and do the full degree. So at the very least my view in keeping with the majority of this forum. Which puts you in the opposition position.
I wouldn't say I'm on a "high horse" at all. I would have thought it was pretty much common knowledge that a CompSci grad can clearly do more and be more adaptive on the job and in general has higher aspirations than a lowly <whatever certification is popular this year> individual.
What? Please provide reasoning. You don't seem to understand how this idea of a "discussion" works?Again demonstrating your ignorance of the industry.
Not quite the same though. Students and average joe workers generally have deadlines of several weeks/months and they are fixed. IT support guys could have an sudden surge of calls come in (some call it an "impact level") so their workload can double or treble within a few minutes notice and the deadline of a few hours to fix everything stays the same. So sometimes there is added pressure - of course other days are "surfing the web" days.
I used to work in support, started at 2nd line 7 years ago then to 3rd line 5 years ago and now I suppose I could be classed as a consultant since I do mostly project work such as setting up Citrix environments and application virtualisation but don't actually "support" anything.
Yes 2nd line is mostly fixing printers and re-install Windows
but it all depends on the ambition of the individual and opportunites. I got out of 2nd line by learning about OS imaging and creating a build process which made me stand out from the rest of the guys and got me into 3rd line where I took an interest in Citrix which got me onto a major Citrix roll out project and so on. Some of those 2nd line guys are still there swapping out printers because they didn't take the initiative to improve their skills and then apply them.Oh and I don't have any IT qualifications, just a maths degree and an awesome CV.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
IT guys - above everyone else
Not in balance from my personal experience, which is why I am asking you for where you have seen it? I am not saying you are wrong, it just disagrees with what I have seen over the last 10 years.
I guess it does, I haven't counted but there are many on both sides of the fence. Also I am not saying don't get a degree, I am saying that good experience these days counts for more when applying for jobs. Demonstrating that experience along with intelligence during an interview process is what will get you the job.
You are very much so on your high horse, particularly when attempting to belittle people just because they decided to work rather than spend a couple more years studying.
And there you are back on your high horse. Your "common knowledge" is utterly utterly flawed. What has having a degree got to do with being adaptive? or having higher aspirations? This is simply bizarre.
I personally have no certifications, but the CCNA has been around for a long time now; there is nothing about it being "popular this year". Again this demonstrates your lack of knowledge about an industry you appear too look down on for some strange reason.
I assume you know what "SLA" stands for, but you seem thoroughly clueless in how they pertain to the IT industry. It has very little in common with getting an assignment in on time.
[TW]Fox;17008245 said:
Selective reading fail and reading between the lines fail.
They are not MY deadlines. I do not work in IT support.
I'd have to go with the majority and suggest that topping up to a full degree should be the way to go and (as per Fox) I would expect most people would agree this would be the sign of a more driven ambitious person.
I wouldn't take too much notice of the 10 a penny IT staff with ideas above their station.
To quote another thread "What sort of company has a GigE WAN but can only afford 2k for a firewall?" - taking enterprise purchasing advise via OcUK isn't the way proper businesses operate. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18054799
I wouldn't take too much notice of the 10 a penny IT staff with ideas above their station.
To quote another thread "What sort of company has a GigE WAN but can only afford 2k for a firewall?" - taking enterprise purchasing advise via OcUK isn't the way proper businesses operate. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18054799
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I see it everywhere and in every top company. Companies that hire <certification of the year> individuals over somebody with a 1st class CompSci degree are barking mad. I doubt if many exist. If they do, they won't last long.
Experience gets you so far. Just like a CCNA or whatever can get you so far. They can't get you the whole way. Just like a degree on its own isn't an insta-permit to success. A degree plus talent is, in my opinion, the killer combination. This combination has levelled entire countries in the past.
Where have I belittled anyone? If that's the way you are interpreting this discussion then I would perhaps suggest that you are being overly sensitive.
There's of course nothing wrong with not having a degree. But it WILL limit your career options. Even if it isn't limiting them yet, it will at some point in the future.
Everything. Ask any employer what a degree means to them. It goes further than what was learnt. But actually the mere fact that the individual has proven that they can learn and educate themselves on a subject without the need for formal specialist training.
Our parent company happens to be the biggest Sonicwall managed services provider in the UK. I certainly don't "look down" upon that industry. I just have nothing to do with that side of the business.
Ask any employer who they would prefer: a 1st class CompSci grad, a CCNA'er, or a barebones A-levels-only...
I am
and all at the same time. SLAs are all about hitting deadline times. Very popular for IT support contracts. There are of course other factors but by far the most important is the so-called "response time" and "resolution time" figures.gah, please god, the use of the word SLA outside of work !
As someone who has no degree, started out on an IT Service Desk doing password resets and visiting users literally swapping out toner cartridges can I suggest you DO get the degree top up.
I have been very lucky, right place, right time, right people, etc etc and managed to get on quickly where I work (ITSD Analyst -> Problem Manager -> ITSD Team Leader -> Service Delivery Manager) and this has resulted in a decent salary.
However, friends of a similar age who have degrees and were either on near identical salaries or less are now overtaking. Why? Possibly in part to the degrees I would say, more likely to the fact that their degrees have enabled them to take on roles where steps can be taken more quickly.
My current plan is to make the most of the current situation with regards to the pay freeze at work, and get on with getting some sort of IT based degree done through the OU. I have plenty of 'industry qualifications' such as PRINCE2 Practitioner, various ITIL ones etc, but they mean nothing to that person in HR who sifts the CV looking for '2:1 or greater degree from the following universities'
In the past there will have been posts from me saying OMG DONT WORRY YOU DON'T NEED ONE... reality is, eventually you do.
As someone who has no degree, started out on an IT Service Desk doing password resets and visiting users literally swapping out toner cartridges can I suggest you DO get the degree top up.
I have been very lucky, right place, right time, right people, etc etc and managed to get on quickly where I work (ITSD Analyst -> Problem Manager -> ITSD Team Leader -> Service Delivery Manager) and this has resulted in a decent salary.
However, friends of a similar age who have degrees and were either on near identical salaries or less are now overtaking. Why? Possibly in part to the degrees I would say, more likely to the fact that their degrees have enabled them to take on roles where steps can be taken more quickly.
My current plan is to make the most of the current situation with regards to the pay freeze at work, and get on with getting some sort of IT based degree done through the OU. I have plenty of 'industry qualifications' such as PRINCE2 Practitioner, various ITIL ones etc, but they mean nothing to that person in HR who sifts the CV looking for '2:1 or greater degree from the following universities'
In the past there will have been posts from me saying OMG DONT WORRY YOU DON'T NEED ONE... reality is, eventually you do.
I'll preface this by saying that you both have valid points (sit on the fence much? 
)
Are you talking about app development roles / coding? If so then aren't most of them going to have CompSci degrees anyway? In which case the guy with a 2:2 and 2 years experience will probably get hired over the graduate with a 1st. Some roles even stipulate "must have 2 years experience in the financial sector" so even if you have 6 years they won't look at you if none of it was an IT role in finance.
If you're talking about support roles then I can definitely see a company going for a candidate with experience + buzz word certifications over someone fresh out of uni with a 1st in CompSci.
Exactly my thoughts.
Perhaps you were a little harsh on networking guys earlier
Another point I entirely agree with. A degree in a decent subject is so much more than just learning the material. I can't remember a fraction of the maths that I learnt but I credit it with developing my thought process and analytical approach to tasks.
)Are you talking about app development roles / coding? If so then aren't most of them going to have CompSci degrees anyway? In which case the guy with a 2:2 and 2 years experience will probably get hired over the graduate with a 1st. Some roles even stipulate "must have 2 years experience in the financial sector" so even if you have 6 years they won't look at you if none of it was an IT role in finance.
If you're talking about support roles then I can definitely see a company going for a candidate with experience + buzz word certifications over someone fresh out of uni with a 1st in CompSci.
Exactly my thoughts.
Perhaps you were a little harsh on networking guys earlier
Another point I entirely agree with. A degree in a decent subject is so much more than just learning the material. I can't remember a fraction of the maths that I learnt but I credit it with developing my thought process and analytical approach to tasks.
Depending on the definition of 'IT Support', the company, the role, etc surely its impossible to tell.
In honesty it won't do any harm, however when I have done interviews for new joiners in 1st line support all I'm really looking for is someone who is willing to learn, understands the basics, and will fit into the team well. People who come into do Service Desk/Help Desk/Call Centre work with a degree will get all upety that after a year they are still sat answering the phone next to a guy with no degree on the same salary.
hello fellow OCUKer's, I just graduated from my HND Computing course and I'm looking for any IT related jobs. Being using Reed employment agency but have found nothing so far.
Can anyone recommend company that take HND grads or would I be better of doing a top up to get a degree?
This is in London btw
I would look at the large integration and services houses such as Logica.
I have just graduated with a BSc in Information Systems. Can anyone recommend/provide tips as to how to make the most out my qualification? I don't want to undersell myself but also don't want to to get too far ahead of myself! Argh!