Aquarium Help – What do i have/need/want?

mast3r

mast3r

mast3r

Soldato
Joined
28 Jan 2007
Posts
2,558
Location
Wilmslow, Cheshire
Hello to all,

I do hope you can help me, yesterday I acquired a fish tank and full setup from a friend, Free of Charge I must add, he also gave me his Fish along with a bag full of other goodies.

It’s a 4ft x 15” x 17” tank and has a submerged filter\pump system also a TetraTec APS400 which sounds faulty, its making a right racket and also randomly decides to cut off (will be going to find a replacement later on today. He also gave me a bucket load of treatments and a full PH testing kit.


Question time:
1) What fish do I have! Lol? I know I have a pair of Cichlids, I bought a Tetra Neon / Neon Tetra just to see what the score would be, it seems @ £1.99 it is dear fish food.

2) My Fantail has some sort of fungal growth around its eyes and some lumps on its upper side, any ideas?

3) When I was given the tank, we carried it down the road and replaced the water with tap water, we added the correct amount Tetra Safe water and the aquatic centre, The Abyss, Sold me some Bacteria treatment @ £22 :) :O . How long should I let the tank rest before I can give it the all clear?

4) I added 3 Plants to the tank as can be seen, should I position them different? Do I need to feed them?

5) What should I do RE the Cichlids, give them away? To make room for some smaller Fish? What are they worth at this size?

6) I would REALLLLLLY like to go down the Marine route but I need to know we have it in us to keep fish etc, am I right in thinking that we can keep a freshwater tank as colorful as a marine tank? With the likes of neon’s etc?

7) Any other tips and advice is more than welcome and I look forward to your replies.


Thanks All.

Mast3r

IMAGES TO FOLLOW, NOT HAVE TIME TO UPLOAD. XX
 
Firstly Neon Tetras need to shoal so buying 1 is a waste of time. I bought a group of 12 to add to my 4ft tank.

To check the water get an API freshwater master testkit and learn about the nitrogen cycle. Chances are with fish in your tank you will be looking at up to 4 months before it is fully cycled assuming no media/bacteria survived the move. The bacteria in a bottle you bought should have a dosage on the bottle and is usually a 1 week course. Without a source of ammonia in the tank however you might not get anywhere but your fish will do it slowly for you.

Best thing you could do would be to give all your healthy fish to your local fish store and start again with a fishless cycle.

Sounds like your fantail could have Ich. It is treatable using medication/aquarium salt and increasing temp to about 28C for a week. Google could be your friend here. Treatment should be done in a separate hospital tank as some of the treatment can harm sensitive fish.

Plants should be fed fertilisers and carbon depending on how well you want them to grow. Chances are they will survive without anything though so its up to you. I does 5ml of EasyCarb liquid carbon daily and then 25ml of ferts every other day. The ferts I get from a hobbyist who makes his own.

Marine tanks cost a lot to get going. Stick with tropicals to get started and learn the science etc. You will not get the colour you could out of a marine but can get close with some species. Neons will not be 1 of them however.
 
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Just please don't buy marine fish untill you've had experience with the ones you've got, or atleast tropical fish...It will be a waste of money.

Marine tanks require a lot of work as everything in it is practically living...And damn expensive!
 
I gave up with plants and stuck to bog wood and stones, had new grow lux tubes and fertiliser, but they needed c02 and I can't be fussed with that, I've got 2 Discus in a 4ft community tank
 
i will not be looking towards a marine tank for a good while to be honest, its more a case of the missus wants Clown fish and is not shutting her cake hole about a marine set up.
We worked it out, to convert what we have to a marine tank should cost around £250 - £280 - any life.

I would like to focus more on the tank i have and see how we cope.

SO: The Cichlids, are they Geophagus Cichlids?
the little white fish, they are a cichlid i am sure... which ones?
My fantail, what appears to be the issue with its head?
 
The white Cichlids look like a Convict/Parrot hybrid to me, infact im 99% sure thats what they are. They aren't a pure breed either way. The big guys (especially the bigger of the two) have the body shape of Parachromis dovii (Wolf Cichlid) but the colouring is way off, might be due to the stress of a move. Again, they could be a mixture of anything, they aren't Geophagus though. I'd suggest either going one way or the other with your setup too, don't mix coldwater and tropical.
 
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mast3r said:
1) What fish do I have! Lol? I know I have a pair of Cichlids, I bought a Tetra Neon / Neon Tetra just to see what the score would be, it seems @ £1.99 it is dear fish food.
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Firstly I would identify the Cichlids as basically there are Old and New World varieties that require very different water environments and certainly have different temperaments! (Some make excellent community fish - others will tear others to shreds). :eek:


mast3r said:
2) My Fantail has some sort of fungal growth around its eyes and some lumps on its upper side, any ideas?
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Although you can keep 'goldfish' in tropical tanks (circa 24-28 oC) I wouldn’t suggest it as they don't make good community tankmates as they are very messy fish and can be quite susceptible to fin nippage (especially from the likes of tetras).

If you can I would see if you can put the little fella in it’s own ‘hospital’ tank and dose him up with whatever your local fish store suggests. On that subject I’m not sure what your LFS (local fish store) is like but I tend to suggest you go to a reputable one or even one that has or runs an aquarium.

mast3r said:
3) When I was given the tank, we carried it down the road and replaced the water with tap water, we added the correct amount Tetra Safe water and the aquatic centre, The Abyss, Sold me some Bacteria treatment @ £22 :) :O . How long should I let the tank rest before I can give it the all clear?
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If you are ever going to move a tank like that and things are running relatively well I would keep a bucket of the existing tank water and the dirty filter(s) as they are (where the bacteria live).
Correct, you can use de-chlorinators like Tetra Safe and certainly use this at every water change.

Sorry if you know this but water changes are very important and a lot of people get given very bad advice from LFS and on websites. A typical water change should be:-

* No more than 25% water change every 2-4 weeks (get a siphon and have a look on youtube if you’re not sure – you should be cleaning gravel with this like here:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa_440OaQxE
* If you are going to use reverse osmosis water then no more than 1/5 if the 25% total water changed
* Cleaning filter – take out filter media and put it in a bucket along with enough water in the bucket to rinse out the filter etc. Soak the filter media in the dirty water for a minute and put back in the filter. This loads up the filter with good bacteria.

A lot of people will take 80% of the water out at a change and clean the filter media so it’s sparkling which seems logical but you end up having a tank that has its chemical levels getting screwed every month which will equal unhappy (or dead) fish and messed up plant growth.

Keep a close eye on all your fish as disease can spread VERY quickly.

If you are medicating the tank I would read instructions regarding water changes and even filter media (some meds require any charcoal based filter media to be removed as this can remove meds).

mast3r said:
4) I added 3 Plants to the tank as can be seen, should I position them different? Do I need to feed them?
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Plants look fine although I would probably try and put in more. Things like java moss grows like crazy in most tanks (with good light) and can be nice to see the fish picking at that and the smaller fish are able to hide there too.

You can go down the CO2 route and even make your own (on the forum mentioned below) and get additives to put in the tank. I would strongly suggest you read the following thread as this is something I hope to start next year and looks unbelievable!! http://www.fishforums.net/index.php...uide-riccia-and-java-moss/page__fromsearch__1

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mast3r said:
5) What should I do RE the Cichlids, give them away? To make room for some smaller Fish? What are they worth at this size?
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The question you need to ask yourself is ‘what type of tank would I like to end up with?’
Everyone is different. I prefer having shoaling fish and love to see neon tetras in 15-20’s shoaling (caution on buying neons, don’t buy more than 5-6 at a time as they can get ‘neon’ disease which basically means they die within 24 hours typically.

Do the research – there are some good websites out there and as for forums I would more than recommend fishforums.net. Been on that site for years and they are very helpful indeed and more than happy to dish out info no matter what experience you have/haven’t.

Once you’ve decided the types of fish you want to go for I I would probably see if your LFS would take the fish and either give you credit towards new stock or plants/accessories.

You said your missus wanted clown fish and although this isn’t anything like those beauties you could always get another 2-3 clown loaches as they like to group together. I have 3 and are absolutely hilarious. Sometimes they chase after each other, always first to the food or scrounging away somewhere, they even play dead – all three sometimes are lined up at the front of the tank upside down on the gravel (thought they were dead first time I saw that!)

I would say the Cichlids are worth a bit that size but the goldfish probably a couple of quid each at the most.


mast3r said:
6) I would REALLLLLLY like to go down the Marine route but I need to know we have it in us to keep fish etc, am I right in thinking that we can keep a freshwater tank as colorful as a marine tank? With the likes of neon’s etc?
Click to expand...

For a first tank I would strongly avoid marine tanks. You could be spending £30-40 per fish (easily) and if things aren’t 100% sorted you could make a seriously expensive mistake.

mast3r said:
7) Any other tips and advice is more than welcome and I look forward to your replies.
Click to expand...

I would read up on the subject, ask questions (pm me if you want to know anything – happy to help).

I’ve been keeping fish for 20+ years and have probably asked most questions and made every mistake in the book but you live and learn!

Most of all take the time to enjoy the fish!
 
Boxman - many thanks for your time spent in your reply, i shall be your new worst nightmare!
Also a thank you to Mr DevilsA.

I have just been home to get some lunch and i have noticed, also the same yesterday, the smaller Cichlid has become very pale, the same happend yesterday but i put that down to lack of Co2 as my airstream had stopped working, i got that kicked over and some food and it's color was back in tone with the larger Cichlid within 10 mins or so.

I think i would look at going down the route of Shole fish, i think i would like a very active and colorful tank where quantity has the upper hand.
I have a soft spot for the red fined sharks too.

I will get signed up on the suggested site and have a read.


Back to my tank, i have the lights set to come on at 8am for 8 hours, there is no direct sunlight on the tank and my temperature is reading only 22oC at present, i have cranked my thermostat up to 24oC and i intend to up it again in a week to 26, that is right? right? (<lol)

From what i have read above, i have a mixture of cold water and tropical fish in this tank? i need to remove most / all fish and start my stocks from scratch?
Would i not be able to keep any of my fish? i love my black and yellow stripy "thing!" AKA *immy* - the missus named it short for imitation clown fish.

Also, at present, i have a TetraTec APS 400 air pump with a 12" air rock thingie, i have a faulty one too, well faulty in that i need a spares kit for £6, i dont know if i should keep it as a spare or add it into the tank under one of the ornaments so the bubbles raise out of the windows etc but have this on a timer with the lights?

thoughts?

Thanks again.
 
You have goldfish in a tropical tank which isnt necessarily a problem ( my dad has as well ) they will just grow quite quickly. If you remove the goldfish dont just put them in cold water as the shock could kill them.

The smaller fish are cichlids and the larger fish to me look like tilapia.
 
In an ideal world you would want to start with just a few small fish and gradually build up to give the bacteria time to establish in the filter.

Where are the fish at the moment? When you moved the tank how long was the filter out of the water for? If it didn't dry out and wasn't flushed with tap water the chances are that there are still a lot of bacteria in there, this would save a lot of time with cycling the tank.

If you have all the fish in the tank already and the tank has very little bacteria to break down ammonia I would recommend doing small frequent water changes to begin with prevent the ammonia (then later nitrites) reaching dangerous levels.

It is possible to move a tank from one place to another by keeping the bacteria in the filter alive, using some of the old water and keeping a close eye on the levels of ammonia and nitrites in the new set up, I've done it several times myself but it usually takes some planning!

First thing I would do is get a water testing kit so you know what is going on in the tank.
 
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dekez said:
In an ideal world you would want to start with just a few small fish and gradually build up to give the bacteria time to establish in the filter.

Where are the fish at the moment? When you moved the tank how long was the filter out of the water for? If it didn't dry out and wasn't flushed with tap water the chances are that there are still a lot of bacteria in there, this would save a lot of time with cycling the tank.

If you have all the fish in the tank already and the tank has very little bacteria to break down ammonia I would recommend doing small frequent water changes to begin with prevent the ammonia (then later nitrites) reaching dangerous levels.

It is possible to move a tank from one place to another by keeping the bacteria in the filter alive, using some of the old water and keeping a close eye on the levels of ammonia and nitrites in the new set up, I've done it several times myself but it usually takes some planning!

First thing I would do is get a water testing kit so you know what is going on in the tank.
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As you see the tank in the images above is how it is now in my dining room, we saved a large bucket of tank water, which we kept the fish in, the stones and gravel were also kept in some buckets holding some tank water too, the filter media was cleaned in the existing tank water, by cleaned i mean scrunched up and swished about, just to clear it up slightly, it was then left out of the tank and water for around 30 minutes, the whole process took us about an hour from start to finish, the fish were out for 30 mins or less.

We have a full tasting kit, the Nitrate is fine and the PH (cant remember the name of this test) is fine, we carried out two tests out of the 6 supplied, we thought it be best to let the tank sit for a few days then do a complete test.
 
Excellent, that should be fine you shouldn't need to remove any fish, I would leave it a couple of weeks before you add any more though, and be careful you don't overstock, you can check out the online calculators that work out the maximum recommended number of fish per tank to give you an idea.

So long as you have a good flow of water moving around the aquarium and across the surface (which that pump should provide) you don't need an air pump. Most of the oxygen is disolved into the water at the surface.

8hrs is a good time to have the lights on, but you may want to change the hours slightly to suit your habbits, for example I have my lights on from 2pm - 11pm, as I like to see the fish in the evening. So long as the room they are in isn't really bright they won't mind a bit of light in the morning.

Anyway welcome to the world of fishkeeping and enjoy your tank :)
 
I have a 4ft ish marine aquarium and would avoid updating yours to marine if any medication which uses copper has ever been used in the tank. For an idea of a 4ft ish marine take a look here

I also used to keep malawi ciclids and they are by nature very agressive and teritorial, they also like a sand substratre and a lot of caves to hide in. :) I found that they do best in tanks with just ciclids as they tend to bully most other fish, they are facinating to watch mind and when settled will dig and move substrate and rock to suite.
 
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Sounds like you want what I have. My main desire was to have an active tank and I choose quantity over size.

Some people (no doubt correctly) go through weeks / months cycling water to get the nitrogen cycle going and the ammonia / nitrite / nitrate levels correct. They will also use lots of testing kits to measure the various levels. I did all of this with my first couple of tanks.

What I now prefer to do is the following:

Week 1 - Tank Set up and Prep:
Place tank in a safe secure location
Rinse off any substrate that I plan to use (gravel / sand etc)
Rinse off any ornaments that will be going in
Assemble the tank (filter / pump / plants / substrate / heather) and add water
Switch it all on
Add dechlorinator + filter start
Leave it for a couple of days to get up to temperature

Week 2 - First Fish
After about a week of daily filter start dosing I place three Zebra danios into the tank. These fish are almost impossible to kill and are a good small size (~1-1.5inches)

Week 3 - Monitor & Clean
You should have been watching the Danios through the week and feeding them once / twice a day depending on your preference. By this time the bacteria should be well established. Remove about 15-20% of the water and clean the gravel using a syphon.

Couple of tips for changing water:

Use a cheap tank to source your fresh tank water. Get something about 48ltrs and fit it with a pump / filter and heater. This means that you will always have a supply of conditioned water at the right temperature.

Rinse the filters in the old water while its in the bucket. Every month or so change the carbon filter / debris filter. If you are using a water polisher filter this will often need replaced weekly / fortnightly.

Week 4 - Add some more fish
Again I would go for adding maybe 3-4 hardy fish either some more Danios (possibly leopard) or something like Harlequins or Black Widow Tetras or something for the ground like Peppered Corydoras. These are all small fish and will keep the tank active.

Week 5 - Second water change
Again swap out 15% of the water using a syphon to clean the gravel at the same time.

Week 6 and from this point onwards:

10% water changes every week
Add additional fish on a fortnightly basis until you have reached the right stock level for your tank.
Do not add neon tetras / cardinal tetras for at least 3 months. These are very fussy fish in regards to water conditions and will die easily if it is not right.
 
A great help from all of you!

One thing i would like to clear up....
The water in my tank, as it sits there is 6ltr of old tank water (prior to the move) and the rest is fresh water, how soon and how much water should i be changing, do i sypoon from the surface of the tank of the bottom of the tank?
 
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