TV licensing people are after me!

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A) you don't have to, but you then can hardly say it's harassment. That's the problem you are calling it harrasment but are unwilling to do anything. It's one or the other.

B) it's a tax, many other tax bodies you have to inform them or you get a fine just like that.

Ok, send me your postal adress, and I will happily write to you with spurious demands every couple of weeks. fair?

You don't need to pay tax on something you don't have/use. TV is probably the only example I can think of where you are guilty until proven exempt.

By the way, you now owe me £1235345134856.53

If you belive you do not owe me this sum, please substantiate your position, or you will be sent directly to jail. :p
 
Make it a compulsory "sorn" with a fine. Bet they would say that's harassment as well just because it is BBC and not seen as a tax.
 
Ok, send me your postal adress, and I will happily write to you with spurious demands every couple of weeks. fair?
:p

You are not a tax arm of the goverment.

People don't have the problems with dvla. So perhaps like them make it compulsory with automatic fines.

This is the problem. Peole do not see it as a tax, it is. People don't see it as against the law, it is.
 
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It is anoptional sorn. You inform them you don't watch live tv and they should stop letters for two years. Tvl have rights to minimise tax evasion like any other tax body.
If they don't stop letters, then you can go through the complaints procedure which all companies have. If it is still not resolved you can take it to the BBC/tvl trustee.

Bargain! if I spend 20 seconds writing a letter and a quid on a recorded delivery envelope, and half an hour at the post office on my lunch break, they might not harrass me for 2 years.

No deal!
 
What a surprise.

It's a silly stance.

Bin the letters and accept it is not harassment, or follow the procedures, like you would with any other tax and stop the letters.

Only if you inform them and they carry on sending letters, can it possibly be considered harasment.
 
You are not a tax arm of the goverment.

People don't have the problems with dvla. So perhaps like them make it compulsory with automatic fines.

This is the problem. Peole do not see it as a tax, it is. People don't see it as against the law, it is.


That I am not, but the principal remains.

"People don't have the problems with dvla. So perhaps like them make it compulsory with automatic fines."


Correct me If I am wrong, but this seems to be the aim. This is all getting a bit to "Orwellian" for my liking though.

The system needs to be broken, hell, it's already broken if the tax office likes it or not.

To quote Dylan,

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.
 
Bin the letters and accept it is not harassment, or follow the procedures, like you would with any other tax and stop the letters.

Only if you inform them and they carry on sending letters, can it possibly be considered harasment.


It IS harassment when a private individual has not Solicited them in any shape or form, remember I DO NOT OWN A TV/VIDEO RECORDER/SATELLITE RECIEVER or USE anything to WATCH a LIVE BROADCAST in the UK therefore they are harassing ME on assumption of guilt. Guilty until proven innocent? Is this the way a Public Funded Body should act?

The problem they have is they simply have no means of separating the genuine no Licence needed from the actual Licence Evaders, so they wrongly harass the people who rightly and legally do not need such Licence.
 
's not a private indivial. It is a tax and as such is has certain rights set by the state, one of it's rights is to limit tax evaison.

It is only harassment if they fail to comply with procedure.

If you do not comply with procedure that is your fault not theirs.


It is no diffrent than any other tax, except that other bodies have laws stating you have to inform and automatic fines.
 
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How would the tv licensing people gain access to your property without your permission? They would need a warrant from the court to force entry, and without reasonable proof, the court wouldn't issue one surely?

Has anyone actually experienced this situation where the licensing people/police have forced entry into their house?
 
It's not a tax, it's a license and they are not a government body.

They intimidate people by pretending that they have the same powers as police by cautioning people under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE).

They can only obtain entrance to a property by invitation only if they force entrancing that would be trespassing and you could charge them.

There are two cautions under PACE. One is for use when you are being arrested, for a mandatory interview, that is what TVLA reads you but they cannot arrest you or mandatorily interview you.
There is a second milder caution under PACE for situations where an investigator is not arresting and has no RIGHT of interview, and that one allows an absolute right of silence and you can slam the door in their face with no consequences for your defence.

They deliberate mislead people with threats, harassing and offensive letters and the worse of all, they are totally mass emailed which wastes paper, money (which you pay for by the way) and assumes everyone is a criminal. If they had these detection vans that they claim they have, why do they send letter and letter to vacant houses?

Even if you do own these equipments, in a neighbourhood where there's god knows how many aerials pointing at the same place, How are you going to know what I'm watching or not? It's literally impossible.

Under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 the TVLA and BBC refuses to release information how this technology operates.
The truth is the technology never existed that is why the TVLA and BBC never have any information about to release about this technology.

The TVLA don’t have any police power at all, they are a privatised company and not The Crown.


Edit: Oh and did I mention, IT'S NOT A TAX, IT'S A LICENSE.

By the way, go look at the salary of BBC executives + tv hosts and then compare them to ITV's and other channels, they earn 10x more. Jeez, I wonder why. No, the money is being spent on infrastructure, give me a break, the UK is decades behind on infrastructure.
 
It's not a tax, it's a license and they are not a government body.

Here is a link to the House of Lords review of the license fee - paragraph 22 on page 11 states that in 2006 the license fee was reclassified by the Office Of National Statistics as a tax, as it meets all the criteria used in defining a tax.

It doesn't matter that the BBC is not a government body - they are still authorised to collect tax, just as many other non-government bodies collect taxes on a daily basis - banks collecting tax on interest income, employers collecting tax via PAYE, any VAT registerd person collecting VAT on their sales.

franco_22 said:
They intimidate people by pretending that they have the same powers as police by cautioning people under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE).

They can only obtain entrance to a property by invitation only if they force entrancing that would be trespassing and you could charge them.

There are two cautions under PACE. One is for use when you are being arrested, for a mandatory interview, that is what TVLA reads you but they cannot arrest you or mandatorily interview you.
There is a second milder caution under PACE for situations where an investigator is not arresting and has no RIGHT of interview, and that one allows an absolute right of silence and you can slam the door in their face with no consequences for your defence.

That's as may be, and I'm not going to argue about that side of things.

franco_22 said:
They deliberate mislead people with threats, harassing and offensive letters and the worse of all, they are totally mass emailed which wastes paper, money (which you pay for by the way) and assumes everyone is a criminal. If they had these detection vans that they claim they have, why do they send letter and letter to vacant houses?

Even if you do own these equipments, in a neighbourhood where there's god knows how many aerials pointing at the same place, How are you going to know what I'm watching or not? It's literally impossible.

Under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 the TVLA and BBC refuses to release information how this technology operates.
The truth is the technology never existed that is why the TVLA and BBC never have any information about to release about this technology.

It can be done. I've read articles on it before, linked from Slashdot, but I can't find anything right now. You can use a dish to collect the RF signals emitted by a TV screen and can tell what is being displayed on that individual TV screen. However, it is expensive, and they have typically relied on the fear of the vans, rather than the tech itself. Moreover, it only works on CRTs, so what tech there is will become extremely ineffective in short order.

franco_22 said:
Edit: Oh and did I mention, IT'S NOT A TAX, IT'S A LICENSE.]

See above.

franco_22 said:
By the way, go look at the salary of BBC executives + tv hosts and then compare them to ITV's and other channels, they earn 10x more. Jeez, I wonder why. No, the money is being spent on infrastructure, give me a break, the UK is decades behind on infrastructure.

Decades behind on infrastructure? How do you figure that? We're fairly near the top of the pack for digital TV adoption, so unless you think cable is a better idea, I'm not sure what you expect.

As for salaries... Don't people traditionally leave the BBC to earn more elsewhere? Maybe not the execs, but certainly the hosts. In fact, someone pointed out in the thread about Jacqui Smith that BBC execs often earn less as there's such an element of prestige to the job that it makes up for the lower earnings.
 
If you stop watching live broadcasts.

can you stop paying sky subscription, if you don't watch or like any of the shopping channels you have to subscribe to?

It is the same principle. A basic package still has to be purchased and will still contain channels you think are rubbish, yet you still have no choice but to pay for them if you want the service.

You get rid of BBC, so i assume you will get rid of any tax towards the infastructure.

Who is therefore going to provide infrastructure. is 3,4 and 5 going to pay and maintain, expand it.

No, you will have to by a service and as part of that service BBC will be included.

And you will still have cost of the infrastructure to make it encrypted and charged for.

The mandate is not to be solely results driven. it is to include a wide range of programs, both regional and for selective groups like the deaf. Something commercial channels would not do. Channels like ITV can;'t even afford to do news with them thinking of axing there news services.

I can only assume you are posting from the offices of the BBC or work in government..

the mind boggles at how you can argue I should be force to pay for something I dont use... I want sky I pay, I want Virgin I pay, I want to rent a DVD I pay, I want a TV in my house to use any of those 3 services and I have to pay a 3rd party.... the mind boggles...

the american channels that do all the good stuff like the simpsons, 24 / lost / heros / etc etc etc do they get bollions from a tax to produce the programs?
 
As for salaries... Don't people traditionally leave the BBC to earn more elsewhere? Maybe not the execs, but certainly the hosts. In fact, someone pointed out in the thread about Jacqui Smith that BBC execs often earn less as there's such an element of prestige to the job that it makes up for the lower earnings.
Aye, a lot of what is "reported" (I'll use that term loosely) in the press as "outrageous" BBC wages are in fact under what the commercial sector pays, as can be seen right from the top down by the fact that the head of the BBC is paid less than the head of C4, ITV, The Daily Mail, and considerably less than the head of Sky despite having a much bigger operation to run than all bar Sky (who are I believe about 25% bigger, but pay their head guy something like ten times as much).
It's also shown by the fact that many of the "over paid" BBC "stars" and presenters move on to much higher paying jobs at ITV etc without seeming to have any problems...
And that's completely ignoring the fact that some of the "reported salaries" being paid to individuals, are really closer to amount being paid for a whole production, of which the "star" or "host" might own the company being paid, but have to pay all the production costs out of the fee.

Not to mention the DM's faux outrage at BBC staff expenses, all of which are well within the HMRC allowances, are much more tightly watched than most of the commercials, and positively frugal (DM cries about 4 star hotels, and 5 star hotel suites, the reality is that unless there is a very good reason*, apparently the BBC barely pays enough for a travel lodge).
Same again with flights - apparently it's sometimes cheaper to book a better seat and get a higher luggage allowance, than get a cattle class Ryan Air type seat and pay through the nose for luggage that needs to be taken (camera equipment etc), and on the rare occasions execs fly business it's usually because they are expected to be working as soon as they land (thus potentially saving some of their wages, and a hotel for a night).

Then there was the "party boat" for the election that some rags made a fuss over - effectively a mobile backup studio (any broadcaster with common sense tries to have a backup for major events, especially live), what almost certainly cost a lot less all things considered than hiring a studio at a second fixed London location (no point in having a backup studio in the same building as the main one..), that could also be used to interview people/give the main presenters a few minutes rest during what was certain to be a very long night of live work.

if I were of a mind to see conspiracies, I could possibly find some nebulous connection between the source of most of the "outrage" about BBC pay/expenses, and a common ownership of companies who might benefit without the BBC being a viable option in the UK.


*IIRC at Cannes they hired a villa because it was being used to entertaining, and at various major expositions what the DM claims is "luxury" accomodation is often run of the mill for the location)
 
Well at the world cup they had a converted double decker bus as a mobile studio.

Thats how it should be!

BBC should pay no expenses at all IMO.

£1000 Taxi rides? A total joke.
 
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