Massive military cuts

[NickK]

The Telegraph has also learnt that the “black hole” in MoD finances, caused by orders which have been made but cannot be paid for, is approaching £72  billion over the next decade – double the amount previously suggested.

Unfortunately regardless of where we want to be the little matter of cashflow is the ruling factor. Those private companies that are contracted to fulfil those orders would need payment, otherwise they can't pay their suppliers and so and so forth.

When the UK had an empire, then we could maintain it. Now we do not have an empire and we have to learn to live within our means.

 

[sanaxe1]

Has there ever been a time in the UK's history when there has been such drastic military cuts while in a war?

 

[sanaxe1]

DP God dammit.

 

[Strife212]

Look at Japan. Instead of taking a leaf from their book, the UK should nick the entire thing.

Japan only has it's Self Defence Force like that in exchange for a massive US army presence on Japanese soil.

 

[physichull]

Is it true that the new aircraft carriers have been canned? Or delayed or something?

 

[Richeh]

Don't know why but the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that America will prompt another country to attack us so we require America's help and end up 'owing' them one.

On other hand, quite shameful to see what the British Empire has sunk to.

 

[Castiel]

Japan only has it's Self Defence Force like that in exchange for a massive US army presence on Japanese soil.

Exactly. The US and Japan have a treaty ensuring the US defence of Japan from external threats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty..._Security_between_the_United_States_and_Japan

 

[scorza]

Is it true that the new aircraft carriers have been canned? Or delayed or something?

Not yet, but it's a possible outcome from this Autumn's Strategic Defence Review.

 

[Castiel]

Is it true that the new aircraft carriers have been canned? Or delayed or something?

Currently nothing has been decided as the SDSR has not been concluded.

Everything so far is simply Media fuelled guesswork and scare-mongering.

 

[Stringy]

Air Chief MArshal Sir Glenn Torpy suggested in 2009 that the RAF should takeover the Naval combat jet operations and effectively disbanding the Fleet Air Arm, I suggest it should be the other way around and we disband the RAF and increase the Fleet Air Arm capability.

Speak to anyone who really knows about Air Power and they'll tell you that neither the Army or the RN would be in any position to take on board what the RAF does. Both the Army and the RN think they could take it on because they only look at the superficial - Fleet Defence and Close Air Support, without looking past it to the swathes of other jobs that they know absolutely nothing about. If the RAF was absorbed into another service it would merely be a change of uniform into White or Green and all the bases would carry out a rebranding exercise; it would serve no purpose.

The main reason that the RN would want to take over the RAF is because they are far better at selling themselves than the fishheads and they're scared they're soon going to be going to sea in rowing boats for their weekly war

 

[RoboCod]

My opinion:

These cuts come out of necessity really. For one we don't need fast jets anymore, that's a fact; When was the last dog fight we had to endure? When did we last shoot down a plane in an air to air situation? Where is the air threat to the UK going to come from? I'm not sure on the operating costs but a UAV is a dam sight cheaper to buy, operate and maintain than a jet with an over paid pilot in it. I'm all for axeing a lot of the head sheds and their monstrous salaries. The GR4 and F3 is crap, it's slow and I wonder when the last time one dropped any ordnance in Afg was? The amount it costs to fly those planes just to carry out recce missions is ridiculous and I assume unsustainable.

It seems we are becoming ever more reliant on the US and other countries to sustain our kit now. Why develop our own equipment when we can buy or loan our UAVs, C130s and C17s off the shelf ready made? That's what the aussies do and it works.

Who is our enemy? The red army isn't coming. The forces had it cushty in the cold war, money being thrown at it with sweet FA in terms of work to do. Now we are being stream lined and rightfully so.

 

[z3r0]

My feelings are actually FOR this. We're all trying to save and get out of this debt nightmare -- why should the forces be any different?

Why should the NHS not be cut is what I'm thinking.

 

[meghatronic]

My opinion:

These cuts come out of necessity really. For one we don't need fast jets anymore, that's a fact; When was the last dog fight we had to endure? When did we last shoot down a plane in an air to air situation? Where is the air threat to the UK going to come from? I'm not sure on the operating costs but a UAV is a dam sight cheaper to buy, operate and maintain than a jet with an over paid pilot in it. I'm all for axeing a lot of the head sheds and their monstrous salaries. The GR4 and F3 is crap, it's slow and I wonder when the last time one dropped any ordnance in Afg was? The amount it costs to fly those planes just to carry out recce missions is ridiculous and I assume unsustainable.

It seems we are becoming ever more reliant on the US and other countries to sustain our kit now. Why develop our own equipment when we can buy or loan our UAVs, C130s and C17s off the shelf ready made? That's what the aussies do and it works.

Who is our enemy? The red army isn't coming. The forces had it cushty in the cold war, money being thrown at it with sweet FA in terms of work to do. Now we are being stream lined and rightfully so.

I think you could save the country a lot of trouble if you lent the Cabinet your crystal ball .

 

[Castiel]

Speak to anyone who really knows about Air Power and they'll tell you that neither the Army or the RN would be in any position to take on board what the RAF does. Both the Army and the RN think they could take it on because they only look at the superficial - Fleet Defence and Close Air Support, without looking past it to the swathes of other jobs that they know absolutely nothing about. If the RAF was absorbed into another service it would merely be a change of uniform into White or Green and all the bases would carry out a rebranding exercise; it would serve no purpose.

The main reason that the RN would want to take over the RAF is because they are far better at selling themselves than the fishheads and they're scared they're soon going to be going to sea in rowing boats for their weekly war

The RAF themselves don't seem to agree with you.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6917297.ece

Other proposals would see all the RAF’s Merlin helicopters move from RAF Benson in Oxfordshire to a joint RAFRoyal Navy station at what is currently Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose in Cornwall.

There are already joint RAF/RN/Army commands, such as the Joint Helicopter command, Joint Force Harrier and the Joint Rapid Reaction Force.

An expansion of these, especially the Joint Rapid Reaction Force would in my opinion be preferable to the swinging cuts across all three Forces in isolation.

The way in which operations are conducted would suit a more unified, single force as the historical disinctions between Maritime, Air and Land theatres are becoming less relevent.

This could, if done correctly increase our operational effectiveness at the same time as making substantial long-term cost savings.

As we are an Island, and the majority of our operations would foreseably be overseas then is seems sensible that the Royal Navy is used as the backbone of that unified force.

 

[Stringy]

The GR4 and F3 is crap, it's slow and I wonder when the last time one dropped any ordnance in Afg was?

Probably a lot more recently than you seem to think.

The RAF themselves don't seem to agree with you.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6917297.ece

Well it doesn't say anything about the RN taking over the entirety of the RAF, which is my point. I can understand the Joint commands where the jobs overlap - it provides commonality in doctrine and operating procedures, cuts down on latency introduced by having inter-service liaison elements, and importantly in this day and age saves money. That said there is so much that the RAF does that the RN and Army don't do (or do to a lower standard) that means there is little sense in disbanding/rebranding it in its entirety.

 

[frosty03]

About time military spending was cut, an island with a population of 60 million does not require the worlds 3rd biggest defence budget.

An island with a 60 million population, wouldnt have the standing and influence it has, without the 3rd biggest defence budget.

We are seriously punching above our 60million weight on the worlds stage. And the only reason we can do that apart from historical reasons, is the presence of our military.

You downsize our military to the size "appropriate" for 60 million, and you WILL get treated as such. If we want to continue to be able to swing things globally for our benefit, then that is the price we have to pay. Without this influence, decisions and actions taken by other powers, may not be in our best interests and may be outright unfavourable to us.

 

[RoboCod]

Probably a lot more recently than you seem to think.

But if they have then when? and how much? We're talking about 1 or 2 500lb bombs, in how long... the last 6 months? Hardly worth the cost of keeping them there. Scrap the lot, sack the pilots and replace them all with UAVs being flown by chimps I say.

 

[Davies_M]

Who is our enemy? The red army isn't coming. The forces had it cushty in the cold war, money being thrown at it with sweet FA in terms of work to do. Now we are being stream lined and rightfully so.

Just a side note, I hope you know that anyone posted to Germany during the Cold War was more or less told that if Ivan steam rolled over, they set up a defence force for as long as the ammo lasted or before they got killed/captured.

Was far from cushty apprently!

 

[RoboCod]

I think you could save the country a lot of trouble if you lent the Cabinet your crystal ball .

You lost me

 

[Davies_M]

But if they have then when? and how much? We're talking about 1 or 2 500lb bombs, in how long... the last 6 months? Hardly worth the cost of keeping them there. Scrap the lot, sack the pilots and replace them all with UAVs being flown by chimps I say.

Why sack the pilots then replace them with more chimps?!

Same outcome