Would you buy this?

I'm not even being a deluded E39 fanboy - in the first post I made in this thread I pointed out that this car has expense potential beyond that of a more 'normal' car.

I'm not going to lie - it'll probably break, and sometimes these breakages will cost £500 or so to fix. But when it isnt broken, it'll be the best car of its type for £3k thats for sure.

Only the OP can decide whether he feels the potential for unplanned expensive is worth the ownership experience of the car.

If it isn't, then a Mondeo or Mazda6 will be more reliable, cheaper to run and better value for money. But neither will be as good a car.

I think I've summed the situation up very fairly indeed.
 
[TW]Fox;17117952 said:
I'm not even being a deluded E39 fanboy - in the first post I made in this thread I pointed out that this car has expense potential beyond that of a more 'normal' car.

I'm not going to lie - it'll probably break, and sometimes these breakages will cost £500 or so to fix. But when it isnt broken, it'll be the best car of its type for £3k thats for sure.

Only the OP can decide whether he feels the potential for unplanned expensive is worth the ownership experience of the car.

If it isn't, then a Mondeo or Mazda6 will be more reliable, cheaper to run and better value for money. But neither will be as good a car.

I think I've summed the situation up very fairly indeed.

I agree.

Feel the love.

I'm gonna chuck my hat into the ring as say the OP only has £3k to spend on a car so isn't swimming in it and probably didn't realise the cost of an e39. Therefor I'm gonna say grab a good condition Mondeo/Avensis, it won't be as nice but it'll be cheaper and will let the OP save money for other things or another car.

Oh sod it get a Bravo.
 
I agree there.

There are better choices, they are just not better cars.

A bit like me. An E92 335i is not a better car than Porsche 911 C4 or a Mercedes SL500. But it's probably a better choice. Same principle here.
 
Interesting info guys!

I'll be doing a 70 round commute to work, 95% of it motorway. M40 to be exact.

I am wondering what I should be looking at I. Terms of questions to ask really, anything I should look for on the car or how it feels when driving.

The potential repair costs and running costs are not an issue really but I don't want to throw money down a hole either.

That's where th full BMW service history should Help though I think.
 
Fox, What is you're obsession with constantly running back to "The E39 is a better car than the Vectra". Yes, we've already agreed that it is a better car, in similar ways that I'm sure you'll agree that an old E38 would be a better motorway muncher than both of them, but you're not going to hear me suggest that because... That's right kids, there are cars that better suit his needs.

I cannot believe that you seriously seem to be recommending someone with £3000 to spend on a motorway car buy an E39.

Sheer Lunacy!
 
I did a huge guide on these. It was a few years ago now so a lot of the values are out but its well worth a read.

When I first got mine I did 92 miles a day round trip on the A38. I averaged 30-32mpg.

The below text is copy/paste from my guide. I wrote it about 3 years ago, so ignore the pricing aspects.

I guess I ought to post something reasonably useful in this thread. I'm going to copy/paste my 5 Series buying guide but it's aimed at cars with a larger budget so before I do I'll make a few points about the bottom end of the E39 market which is where you will be with a budget of £2.5k.

Firstly, lets sell the car. In context (That is, compared to its design breif/rivals at the time/etc rather than compared to a 2009 Jaguar XF) it was probably one of the finest executive saloons ever made and numerous motoring press made the bold 'best car in the real world' claim about it at various stages during its life. Released in 1996 with the first examples on a late N plate, it instantly left the then-new Mercedes E Class in the shade. The E39 5 Series was What Car? Executive Car of the Year in 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002. In other words, every year it was on sale.

So why is it so good?

Firstly it's a beautifully built car. Everything feels properly solid and well fashioned. If there is any cheap and nasty plastic in the car I've yet to find it, even when you take it to bits to fix things or fit audio or whatever there are bits of plastic the end user was never meant to find yet still it's of excellent quality. Lots of little touches - the door bins are carpeted, etc etc. The perceived quality of the interior is absolutely spot on and the doors close with a resounding thud. I love that sort of stuff.

But quality alone is not enough. Although Mercedes had lost the plot Audi demonstrated a year later with the A6 that it too could built a perfectly finished interior. Luckily for the E39 they also demonstrated they sucked at everything else, whereas crucially the BMW doesn't. It handles beautifully for a car of its size and has a fantastic ability to shrink around you on your favourite A road yet feel huge when cruising on the Motorway. It's refined and relaxing yet fun to drive and sharp. The engines are responsive, the feedback through the steering wheel is spot on, they are just fantastic to drive compared to any of the rivals.

But this was when they were new. How do they hold up used?

Rather well, actually - the interiors are very hard wearing and if a car shows significant wear in the interior then its an abused example best left alone. The problem is though that for £2.5k you are going to be looking at cars from the mid and late 90's. They are going to be 10-13 years old. A fresh E39 handes beautifully. An E39 on 13 year old dampers handles like a matress.

So, ideally, you want a really well looked after example which has had the suspension renewed at this age. A set of dampers, fitted, will run to £500. All 4 front suspension arms, another £500. Rear trailing arm bushes a few hundred quid, and ARB droplinks nice and cheap at about 25 quid. Look for a car thats had this work done OR budget to do this work yourself. Most people dont bother and it's impossible to tell from an advert whether they have or not. This is why often very appealing cars appear on AT at tasty prices. Great, nice and shiney. But just ready for an almighty bill.

This is a car you buy for £1k less than your budget and spend £1k bringing up to scratch. Once you've done this it'll be absolutely fantastic, but don't think you can just buy a cheap one, run it on a shoestring and get the full ownership experience from it because you can't. They might be banger money now to buy but they are still very much executive money to keep nice.

Looks. All £2.5k E39's will be prefacelift. Yes, all. Somebody will now almost certainly find you a £2.5k facelift model but a £2.5k facelift model will not be a £2.5k car it will be a £2.5k car with a huge amount of money required to be spent on it. They are cheap now but not THAT cheap, so stick to prefacelift models. These are N, P, R, S, T W and X plate. The prefacelift doesn't have nice, modern features like Angel Eyes, LED rear lights etc. You can easily retrofit these with genuine kit - the cost will be £500. Non-facelifted models are looking a little tired these days.

Which one to pick? Easy. Go for a 528i SE with optional M-Tech suspension. The Sports suspension is excellent - sure, the SE isnt bad, but if you enjoy driving you need the Sports suspension.

Whilst they are fundamentally reliable you will find yourself fixing bits here and there and this can soon add up. I'll post the guide I wrote in the next post for you - whilst its aimed at buyers with about double or triple the budget buying facelift cars much of it applies equally to the prefacelift models, especially the cooling system worries.

SPECIAL NOTE

6 cylinder E39's built before March 1998 were originally fitted with engines which had Nikasil bore linings. These caused immeasurable problems and BMW replaced most of these under warranty. It is imperative you buy a car which has had this work done if you are buying an R plate or older. BMW will tell you if you call them with the reg.

btw, the 'omg expensive to run' stuff applies to most cars of this type not just E39.

GENERAL E39 BUYERS GUIDE:

Absolutely fantastic cars but then I would say that - I have no problems admitting that I am a blinkered E39 fanboy. But only since I got mine, and I only got mine becuase it really is noticeably better than any similar car of the same sort of age. Now thats out of the way...

.... it will not be as bulletproof to run as your Impreza. Stuff WILL break. Some it it will be cheap and easy to fix, some of it will be less cheap and less easy to fix. It's unlikely to ever let you down but for some people throwing 300 quid here, 100 quid there at it might get a bit annoying. For me, well I'd rather pay to repair mine than pay for depreciation in a newer Vauxhall so I'm still dead happy.

I wrote a pretty comprehensive guide on what to look out for which I will attach to the bottom of this reply.

Firstly though - are you sure you want a 530d?

I drive both a 530d SE and my 530i Sport (Infact until I took the 530i on a 500 mile trip the other day I've probably covered more miles this year in the 530d, ironically) so if you've got any direct questions about the differences I should be able to provide you with a useful opinion. Interestingly fuel consumption report for that trip:

Exeter-Worcester, M5: 39.2mpg (Yes, 39.2mpg. I was so shocked I then brimmed the tank to check for accuracy of the fuel computer).

Worcester-Southampton (rush hour in Worcester, went a bit quicker on the way back to Soton) took the average down to 35.7mpg over a total of 280ish miles.

Southampton-Plymouth (Early evening, not much traffic, not driving for economy, plenty of overtaking but no silly speeds) averaged 31mpg.

The big thing with the two is you need to make sure the additional economy you get from a 530d will offset the considerable additional expense associated with buying one AND the potential additional failiure points such as the turbocharger and high pressure injectors. 530i's are often up to £2k cheaper than an otherwise identical 530d, and of course are ultimately faster cars.

Fuel economy wise...

Around town, short trips from cold:

530i 20-23mpg, 530d 28-31mpg

Mixed runs, blasts along single carriageway A roads, overtaking, etc etc

530i 28-31mpg, 530d 36-39mpg

Motorway work at 70ish

530i 37-40mpg, 530d 44-48mpg

And here follows the post I did the other month:

Ok, buying a 530i..

Firstly you've got to be really careful. The best way to buy a good value used BMW is to buy an absolutely immaculate example thats less than 5 years old from its original owner. Unfortunately as time goes by its more and more difficult to do this with the E39 so you need to be a tad more open minded.

These are excellent cars with absolutely fantastic build quality. In terms of build its probably the best BMW have managed and not since it was around, new, has BMW had a car on the market thats been so much better than the competition. This means that condition wise it's very easy to keep them looking very nice and the interior is very hard wearing. This has a few important consequences:

a) You can be fussy on condition - it shouldnt be 'in good condition for age' it should just be in good condition. There are 10 year old E39's out there which look like new inside. Mine is the wrong side of 150k miles and you cannot tell. This means you can, if you are fussy, get a really nice example

b) They are very easy to clock - you can take a 140k mile car, wind it back to 80k, and nobody will suspect a thing. This happens far more often than it should, I looked at at least two cars at auction with high miles which subsequently turned up on Autotrader a few weeks later with less miles on it. The usual 'look for worn out seat' etc etc advice doesnt apply becuase even after 100k miles the seats remain in good condition.

So, be very careful. Insist on Full BMW SH as a) it shows the owner hasn't been the sort to skimp on looking after the car and b) you can verify the history wtih BMW and thus verify the mileage is genuine. In theory if the car detects its been clocked (The mileage is stored in different places in the car) it brings up a red dot beside the mileage on the dashboard but there might be a way round this. Be careful.

c) You don't really need to worry about mileage unless you plan to resell it in a short period of time. This peice of advice becomes less relevant as the cars get older and get more owners as it's far more difficult to work out how the car has been used but I'll say it anyway. These are fundamentally very reliable cars which wear miles very well and are very capable of being in excelent condition pretty much regardless of mileage. Even the common failiure points on them seem to happen at a certain age rather than mileage (More on those later). Therefore, buy on age, condition and history first. Use mileage to negotiate the price.

So, what to look for. Personally, a car with as few owners as possible. Far too many E39's now have 900 owners all of whom have had varying opinions on how much money you need to spend on a car to keep it going. Remember, to most people, a car is worth to them what they paid for it until the day they trade it in. The more they've paid the more you'll hope they'll value the car and thus be prepared to spend to keep it running (There are of course exceptions to every rule but this is a good guide).

Personally, I'd want a one owner from new example but at the age of car you'll be looking at, 2 owners from new with the last owner having had it 2-3 years is probably more likely and thus more reasonable.

As far as the actual interior condition goes, the only areas of wear should be on the drivers side bolster of the Sport seat, and perhaps a little on the steernig wheel. Everything else, dashboard, buttons, gearstick, etc etc is very resiliant and should be showing little signs of wear.

For context, here are some photographs of what the interior of mine was like - 140k miles:




Really baggy seats, scratched leather, etc etc = hard life and/or abuse. Don't buy one from a fat guy as they tend to ruin the drivers seat.

Onto the exterior..

Again, very well put together. Perfect shutlines etc etc, if not, ask questions. Watch for rust. Yes, rust, on a BMW, but there we go. Two areas on the E39 - inside the fuel filler cap, and on the boot tailgate where it meets the bumper. Neither of this is structural, its purely cosmetic, but you can probably use it as a bargaining point all the same. If the car is under 6 years old it's both covered by the BMW Corrosion Warranty.

Wheels - on the 17 inch Sport wheels you do get little patches of corrosion under the laquer. The 18 inch wheels, by far the best, are Diamond Cut and if not cleaned on a regular basis can also suffer damage. Use the condition of these to judge how much the care has been cared for. Tyre sizes are different front and rear so make sure the owner hasn't cheaped out. For reference:

17: 235/45/17 front 255/40/17 rear
18: 235/40/18 front 265/35/18 rear

Rear tyres on the 18's are a bit expensive as it's a stupid tyre size thats shared only with the Porsche 911 C4. Grrr.

Driving...

If it doesn't feel right it probably isn't - the engine should be very smooth. It is here I will mention the E39's biggest bugbear. They are very sensitive to wheel balance and imperfections in the aluminium suspension setup (Be that allignment, worn bushes, etc etc) and this will tend to cause 'the dreaded shimmy' where you can feel a vibration through the entire car at speed. Do try not to accept any car with this shimmy unless you are certain why it has it, becuase it can be any of a number of things. Most common are wheel balance (Most tyre shops cant balance E39 wheels properly becuase they are monkeys) or warn upper/lower control arm bushings.

It will not feel that fast, despite the fact 0-60 will come up in 6.7 seconds and it'll hit 100 in just over 17 seconds, becuase the car is very refined and most of the engine noise etc doesn't make it into the cabin. This is a shame, as it robs the car of the thrill of acceleration, but a quick check of the speedo will remind you that actually, you are going quite quick. Top speed is limited to 155mph but without this limiter the 530i has been known to hit speeds of 156, perhaps even 156.5mph

So what goes wrong and how much is it going to cost you to run?

Well so far my list of things that can and do break is thus:

a) Shimmy. As described above. If its bushes, £250 a side should see it right.

b) COOLING SYSTEM

The cooling system in the E39 5 Series is crap. Not in the efficiency sense, but in the reliability and longevity sense. It WILL fail, usually when the car is between 5 and 7 years old seemingly regardless of mileage. The OEM radiator has a design fault which leads to it splitting at the plastic end tanks and ****ing cooling all over your engine bay. If it doesn't fail like that, then the plastic header tank will split. On the cars you are looking at for this sort of money if it hasn't had a replacement cooling system it's almost certainly going to need one during your ownership.

Replace the lot at once - waterpump, radiator, header tank, upper/lower hoses (May as well) and the thermostat. Budget about £400-£600 for this work.

I hate the cooling system, it is truely the only nightmare I have had with my car. And so has EVERY other 530i owner I know, without fail. But once its replaced you should be ok.

Oh and the header tank is black, so you can't check the level of coolant if the engine is warm. GOD DAMNIT.

c) Propshaft

Most people ignore this. I got a whole new Propshaft out of BMW for it. It's usually just a bearing. The centre bearing or propshaft donut can wear out. You will hear a 'chink' nose as you apply power from 1st or 2nd gear. An indy can fix this for less than 200 quid. Or you can ignore it like Olly has.

d) Climate Control system

The most common failiure here is the Final Stage Resistor, or 'Hedgehog' (Its got a huge heatsink on it that spikey). It fails and your climate control goes bonkers, randomly adjusting blower speed and doing even more impressive things like leaving your internal blower on all night and flatening your battery. A new one is 50 quid, takes 20 minutes to fit, but it can be a bit awkward. If you've got no blower at all its your blower motor, these require the dashboard to come out. This one just cost me 320 quid at BMW.

e) Automatic gearbox

These can fail but I've no idea how common it is. Half the internet reckons its becuase you didnt change the sealed for life gearbox fluid at 100k miles. The other half the internet reckons it's something else or becuase you DID change the gearbox fluid at 100k miles. I don't care as autoboxes are for old people. A new box is a large amount of money.

I can't think of much else off the top of my head, will add later if I do.

So aside from stuff breaking how much will it cost you to run?

Servicing is on a variable system with 15,000 miles as a base. Use it around town/thrash it, and it'll be less. Sit on the Motorway and it'll be more. The servicing order, and prices, are as follows:

Oil Service - £80-170 depending on where you go. You can get them done by BMW for about 130-140 quid including oil if you've got a decent dealer.

Inspection 1 - £200-£300.

Oil Service

Inspection 2 - £270-£400

Oil Service

Inspection 1

Oil Service... etc. You get the idea.

You also need brake fluid every 2 years @ £30-£80 and Coolant every 4 years at about the same cost.

Tyres - a full set of decent tyres for the 17 inch wheels will set you back about £450 or £550 for the 18's. If you are a cheapskate ***** you can buy crappy Kumho's or something for less but if you are a cheapskate ***** please buy a different car, thanks <3

Insurance - is Group 17 but suprisingly reasonable.

Tax - is loads. If its a Y reg or newer it will be affected by the governments utterly retarded taxation system. The manual will cost £415 a year to tax, and the automatic £430 a year to tax.

Fuel consumption. If your name is Olly and you have steel toecap boots you will get 19.2mpg. If your me and you find the Ken Bruce show on Radio 2 really rather thrilling you'll get 39.2mpg. If you are a normal person living in the real world you'll see 30-35mpg on a trip, 18-23mpg around town, and something in the middle in general driving. It takes Super Unleaded.

Bad points?

a) It's too refined. It robs you of the excitement you get from accelerating quickly yet still gets you into license loosing territory far too quickly without you realising
b) The stereo is so awful it's beyond rubbish.
c) Muppets keep buying them and fitting fake shark fins on the roof and stupid 19 inch wheels.

Thats about that really. They do cost rather a lot to run - but personally I think its worth every penny. I absolutely love mine and despite test driving loads of other stuff I've yet to drive a single car which makes me think 'I need this over my E39'. It's the perfect blend of performance, economy, long distance ability, A road handling, good looks without standing out, etc etc. And it even looks like an M5, with factory fit M badges everywhere to suit people like me who really want an M5 but cannot afford one.

Brilliant cars. Just don't buy a bad one, or buy a good one and ruin it with crap replica wheels.
 
Fox, What is you're obsession with constantly running back to "The E39 is a better car than the Vectra". Yes, we've already agreed that it is a better car, in similar ways that I'm sure you'll agree that an old E38 would be a better motorway muncher than both of them, but you're not going to hear me suggest that because... That's right kids, there are cars that better suit his needs.

I cannot believe that you seriously seem to be recommending someone with £3000 to spend on a motorway car buy an E39.

Sheer Lunacy!

THE ORIGINAL POSTER HAS SPECIFICALLY ASKED US ABOUT THIS CAR. I AM THEREFORE PROVIDING HIM WITH THE INFORMATION HE HAS REQUESTED WHILST MAKING SURE HE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT HE IS LETTING HIMSELF IN FOR IF HE CHOOSES THIS CAR.

HE HAS ASKED WHAT TO LOOK OUT FOR. I AM ANSWERING HIS QUESTION. I AM NOT GOING TO REFUSE TO ANSWER HIS QUESTIONS JUST BECAUSE ARGUABLY ANOTHER CAR WOULD BE BETTER. I AM HAPPY TO TELL HIM ANOTHER CAR MIGHT SUIT HIS NEEDS BETTER BUT I AM STILL GOING TO ANSWER HIS QUESTION.

YOU ARE JUST BEING IRRITATING AS ALWAYS
 
Epic post is epic.

Fox posts useful information, Joshy doesn't.

No mention of him being a Bentley master tech though! :o
 
ROFL! This is awesome!

If I can just add, I find that the Vectra is uncomfortable in many respects, from the stitching on the wheel to the shape (or lack of shape) in the seats to the position of the lighting controls. It's full of niggles before you get to the spec. being less than a nearly 10 year old design.
 
Oh please.

I can't count the amount of times I've gone into a thread, seen the OP mention and specific car and either you or someone else say something along the line of "That's crap for you, how about a ______ Instead", why should this be any different.

I'll sum up.

TruFact: A 140,000 mile, £3,000 BMW is very rarely a good idea, particularly not when you seem to be after a generic motorway muncher and Personal opinion: Particularly not when your money could buy you something that was not designed more than a decade and a half ago.
 
Last edited:
Just spotted the tax stuff in the guide is wrong as the government u-turned on the expensive tax thing. No E39's are more than £245 a year to tax.
 
your money could buy you something that was not designed more than a decade and a half ago.

No, you could buy a Mk3 Mondeo instead, designed in 1999. Or a Vectra C, designed in 2001. Or perhaps a Honda Accord, oh hang on they were drawing that up in 1997. What about a Passat? Damn, that was 1996 for the B5 wasn't it. Oh, how fresh these cars are. You've still not actually told me what about the fact they were designed a few years later actually brings to the table. What is it? What about the fact they were designed a bit later makes them an improvement? It isn't safety systems, it isn't electronics, it isn't build, it isnt specification levels, it isn't technology, what is it?

Probably because you don't have a clue. You are recycling what I said before without really understanding what I meant by it or what context I was using it in.
 
The E39 is a better design in very nearly every respect than the Vectra you're on about. Why do people think that car design moves faster than it really does. The Vectra's floor comes from the 80s.
 
[TW]Fox;17118172 said:
No, you could buy a Mk3 Mondeo instead, designed in 1999. Or a Vectra C, designed in 2001.

What are you trying to suggest? That's 4 and 6 years respectively, That's quite a bit of time in anyone's book.

4 years difference is enough to Link the E39 with my (by your words) ancient Soarer :o.

[TW]Fox;17118172 said:
Probably because you don't have a clue. You are recycling what I said before without really understanding what I meant by it or what context I was using it in.

There isn't a great deal to understand. Old car is old, and his money can buy something designed more recently that better suits his needs. Really, why are you struggling with this?

Can you please admit that there are better, 'newer' (by design, rather than by number plate) cars out there for him? Deep down I know you agree, you're (usually) too sensible not to.
 
I had a e39 and I still wish I had it. One of the comfiest best built cars I ever owned. It was built like a tank went on fire because of a cooling issue (good ole e39 ;) ) And still kept going. Was 6 years old when I had it and had done 99k and didnt squeek or rattle at all and felt like new. I have 2004 civic type R now and the build quality makes me cry.

If the e39 your going to see makes you want it badly go for it but like fox says they are not cheap to fix *if* they break but they are great in every other way.
 
Last edited:
What are you trying to suggest? That's 4 and 6 years respectively, That's quite a bit of time in anyone's book.

Answer my question. Here it is again:

You've still not actually told me what about the fact they were designed a few years later actually brings to the table. What is it? What about the fact they were designed a bit later makes them an improvement? It isn't safety systems, it isn't electronics, it isn't build, it isnt specification levels, it isn't technology, what is it?

There isn't a great deal to understand. Old car is old, and his money can buy something designed more recently

See above. Explain WHY this results in a better car. What does it bring to the table? What does it give him?

Can you please admit that there are better, newer cars out there for him? Deep down I know you agree, you're (usually) too sensible not to.

What, you mean like I did before you even posted in this thread?

Fox said:
A good BMW is many things. Value for money is not one of them.

I've no idea what his usage profile is. Therefore I've settled for simply answering the questions he asked of us, whilst ensuring it's littered with BUT THEY COST A FORTUNE disclaimers.

Had he posted 'Hi guys I earn 20 quid a week and do 30k a year' my posts would be different but he has not said this, so they are not.
 
Get a room chaps. Everything that is wrong about Motors is in this thread, save for some baby killing, and 10% of what is right.

Where's the Ignore button gone...
 
Get a room chaps. Everything that is wrong about Motors is in this thread, save for some baby killing, and 10% of what is right.

To be fair your post completed the collection by giving us what every 'wrong' thread needs - comments on the other people in the thread by somebody who has otherwise not bothered to add anything to help the OP :D
 
I was just talking to Howard, saying that all we need now is someone complaining about the OcUK Motors regulars posting style. I thought you might actually explode Fox.
 
Back
Top Bottom