Graduates struggling to find jobs

[dowie]

Effectiveness in this order:

Nepotism -> experience -> qualifications

About 75-80% of the time, the first one will be what gets you a job.

What industry are you referring to?

I guess if you're talking about small businesses then perhaps but for most large companies you'd need to know someone very high up to bypass HR.

For banking even knowing an MD* is likely not enough these days - sure they can give you a contact who's hiring or maybe help you get an interview but the days where they could simply get you a job are long gone.

*its not as high up as you'd expect mind - this is an industry where people can make it to 'Vice President' in their 20s...

 

[Pug]

What do you think of the Chemistry department at Manchester? I'm hopefully going there results depending. Im doing the Mchem with a year in industry, thats key to me as it is a masters and has a years paid placement.

Thats possibly one of the few places i havent been in manchester as yet, but colleagues seem to do well there and praise it highly enough.

As for the course, i do think placement is the bestoption, tho a MCHEM isnt really a masters imo, but then i'm old guard i guess

That a 5yr course then, or is the masters completed in the 4th year after placement?

 

[Basher]

Effectiveness in this order:

Nepotism -> experience -> qualifications

About 75-80% of the time, the first one will be what gets you a job.

Completely agree, but it's up to the individual to exploit that.

I used family connections to secure an interview (not a job) for my first role. I then used connections that I had developed in that role to get my current role. If I had taken the traditional route I doubt that I'd be on £60k+ with EMEA wide responsibility 2 years after graduating.

 

[Red Porsche]

Thats possibly one of the few places i havent been in manchester as yet, but colleagues seem to do well there and praise it highly enough.

As for the course, i do think placement is the bestoption, tho a MCHEM isnt really a masters imo, but then i'm old guard i guess

That a 5yr course then, or is the masters completed in the 4th year after placement?

Yes the master is completed in the 4th year. In the 3rd year you do the placement for 12months and at the same time do 2 modules out of the 3 a Bsc student would do in their third year. You dont do your dissertation in your third year I THINK its merged with your 4th year project. Your right its not a proper Masters, but itll look good on the CV .

Heres the list of modules for all the chemistry courses:

http://intranet.chemistry.manchester.ac.uk/handbook/list_degree.php

Im thinking of doing a Phd afterwards if i still have it in me, the higher up/management jobs seem to require it. Im so glad i chose chemistry IMO its one of the best degrees out there, the transferable skills are applicable to a lot of unrelated jobs. Its seen as one of the harder degrees and Mancester has a good rep.

 

[Pug]

hehe emphasis very much on the analytical

Porsche - i agree, chem is very transferable. And better that your mchem is 4 yrs inc placement, otherwise it would be a little on the long side. I look at my managers and their managers, and none of them have PhDs tbh, yet a lot of my equivalent colleagues do have them. So i'd say if you are like 40-odd, and looking for a management role they are superfluous, but for our generation, they may have merit.

 

[Indy500]

Completely agree, but it's up to the individual to exploit that.

I used family connections to secure an interview (not a job) for my first role. I then used connections that I had developed in that role to get my current role. If I had taken the traditional route I doubt that I'd be on £60k+ with EMEA wide responsibility 2 years after graduating.

Getting into a good company doesn't hurt (and I don't just mean blue-chip when I say that).

 

[HangTime]

You need a masters these days to get a head.

Do employers really care that much though if people have a Masters though? Often a Masters is done for the 'wrong' reasons, e.g to try and coverup a poor degree classification, or because the student doesn't want to step out into the big bad world of employment.

Personally I reckon a 1st class degree will open as many doors as a Masters, unless you are going into a research industry or something like that I don't think there are many cases where it will really make you stand out above other candidates.

 

[alx]

Do employers really care that much though if people have a Masters though? Often a Masters is done for the 'wrong' reasons, e.g to try and coverup a poor degree classification, or because the student doesn't want to step out into the big bad world of employment.

Personally I reckon a 1st class degree will open as many doors as a Masters, unless you are going into a research industry or something like that I don't think there are many cases where it will really make you stand out above other candidates.

It depends, if you're studying something like engineering, a lot of 'engineering' employers want/require graduates with a masters in the relevant engineering discipline.

Also, doing a management masters after completing a science degree or similar is a good way of getting into management roles which may not have available if you just had a non-management related degree.

I do agree that a masters should be done for a specific reason, not just because its convenient.


After reading this thread I'm actually feeling quite lucky considering the graduate job offer i just got , but I guess you make your own luck as I hardly studied a doss degree.

 

[Pug]

Personally I reckon a 1st class degree will open as many doors as a Masters, unless you are going into a research industry or something like that I don't think there are many cases where it will really make you stand out above other candidates.

I'd agree. A proper masters, probably not, but a masters tacked on as a final year or so wont make much difference at all - some places see it as a waste of a year which could have been used to do a post-graduate, or higher degree. A proper MSc or equivalent is better than a typical undergrad degree though, all imo.

The guy above doing an MChem, is ok as it isnt taking any longer than a BSc (industry) so "cant hurt"

 

[alx]

I'd agree. A proper masters, probably not, but a masters tacked on as a final year or so wont make much difference at all - some places see it as a waste of a year which could have been used to do a post-graduate, or higher degree. A proper MSc or equivalent is better than a typical undergrad degree though, all imo.

The guy above doing an MChem, is ok as it isnt taking any longer than a BSc (industry) so "cant hurt"

Quite possibly true in other subjects, but in engineering this deffo isn't the case.

 

[Dave]

I'd agree. A proper masters, probably not, but a masters tacked on as a final year or so wont make much difference at all - some places see it as a waste of a year which could have been used to do a post-graduate, or higher degree. A proper MSc or equivalent is better than a typical undergrad degree though, all imo.

The guy above doing an MChem, is ok as it isnt taking any longer than a BSc (industry) so "cant hurt"

Not really the case in engineering though, because MEng is the lowest qualification for chartered status which is why I chose MEng over BEng all those years ago. (at least that's the case for IChemE, presume that IMechE etc are the same)

 

[PeterNem]

Those of you who did a placement: how hard was it for you to find a job after you graduated?

Easy - myself and the 8 others from my course who did a 1 year internship (as part of a sandwich course) with a large IT consultancy company were offered jobs pretty much as we went back to start our final year. There's a lot of comfort in knowing (short of you flunking your degree) that there's a job sat waiting for you.

If you work somewhere for a year and are seen to do a good job, it's silly for them to wave you goodbye and take a gamble on someone else.

I'd not do an internship somewhere that wasn't likely to have longer term prospects - try and get in somewhere that is likely to offer you employment on graduation.

 

[Mr-White]

Do employers really care that much though if people have a Masters though? Often a Masters is done for the 'wrong' reasons, e.g to try and coverup a poor degree classification, or because the student doesn't want to step out into the big bad world of employment.

Personally I reckon a 1st class degree will open as many doors as a Masters, unless you are going into a research industry or something like that I don't think there are many cases where it will really make you stand out above other candidates.

There are many reasons why people do masters and just like degrees there are people doing them for the right and wrong reasons. With the amount of applicants for jobs these days and the fine line between candidates, a masters on a CV would edge someone with just a degree.

MW

 

[meghatronic]

There are many reasons why people do masters and just like degrees there are people doing them for the right and wrong reasons. With the amount of applicants for jobs these days and the fine line between candidates, a masters on a CV would edge someone with just a degree.

[citation needed]

Whist I agree, on common sense grounds, this is not the case I've seen with any of my peers. Most of the FTSE100 disregard anything higher than a Bachelor's for graduate entry level roles, and a Master's generally isn't enough to enter higher (unlike MBA, PhD, etc).

 

[rypt]

[citation needed]

Whist I agree, on common sense grounds, this is not the case I've seen with any of my peers. Most of the FTSE100 disregard anything higher than a Bachelor's for graduate entry level roles, and a Master's generally isn't enough to enter higher (unlike MBA, PhD, etc).

Surely that applies mostly to when you go on to do work outside of your field of study though

 

[vicisthebest]

I graduated with a teaching degree last May and it took me till this April to get a full time job (one that I'm over the moon with, it's a brilliant school) - but so demoralising at the time.

To get onto a teaching course I needed 2 Cs and a D at A-level (so I was well overqualified with an A and 2 Bs) - practically anyone could get onto the course. They're talking about making teaching a Masters' subject, and I think this could be what the profession needs.

There is a saturation of teachers in the primary sector and it's too easy for anyone to do the course. If a higher qualification was needed it would also make it easier for qualified teachers to get a job (there are up to 200 applicants for every job currently).

 

[Nix]

I was of the understanding that a PGCE was a post-graduate course?

 

[alfalavala]

I was of the understanding that a PGCE was a post-graduate course?

It is.

But you can do degrees where you get it at the same time.