Steering wheel for 360/PS3

I gave an opinion based on personal disappointment that the franchise instead of focusing on replicating motorsport or racing, with things like racing regulations, rules, weather and creating a race event enviroment within the game just seemed less important to the developers. Those are things people into motorsport and sims would have liked to of seen.

Instead T10 decided to make the game easier to play to increase the games target audience and throw in big barrell rolls. Is FM3 a much better racing game than FM2, is it much more simulated, more realistic? I wouldnt say to a great degree much different over FM2. The bigest jump was the graphics and excellent audio. For me it failed to excite me long term as it quicky began to feel and play like FM2 with more cars and tracks. In triple screen its great fun and particulary with the Turbo S wheel is a nice game to play.

Ask yourself did it introduce things to take it further in the racing department like upcoming games inc, F1 will do in weather, day - night cycles. Yet it still stuck with only 8 cars and several racing games feature more than this now. I wish FM3 fans would stop protecting/ignoring areas that indeed havnt been improved in the series but would have made it a much better racing game in general and more of a sim.

Regards being a sim and peeling back layers of difficulty/control with its big talk on tyre physics, please go ahead and youtube for videos on the "active steering support". Is it true that this is implemented for pad players to make the game easier to control and that it cant aparently be turned off even with using a wheel. How many sim games have steering assistance you cant turn off? So here we have a guy wanting to buy an expensive and serious wheel to enjoy a game that effectively is going to help him steer.

This may be your opinion, but it's rather factually incorrect, remember that they largely had 2 years to do FM3 in, they added plenty to the game for the more hardcore, you are really being irrationally harsh with your spin on things.
- They massively improved the private MP game setup to allow creation and enforcement of various regulations, it was a huge step from FM2, it's not perfect, but a lot of work clearly went into it. the level of detail you can setup a race is very advanced.
- Please clarify race environment, because all the hardcore sims I've played have very little of it at all, I'd say hardcore gamers want to race above all else, I think you speak for the people who like the 'show' of it all, which is just a cross section of all types of people, not limited to hardcore or casual.
- Weather would be nice, but only if done well, considering all they had to do in 2 years, and how painful GT5 development was, I think it's OK to not include every feature possible in 2 years, it would have been half-assed, and I don't think technically on the graphics engine it would have been so easy.
- You forget the auction house / tuning / livery aspects, this is one area FM has forged a solid community, it has brought about an organised system to promote people who want to 'tune' cars, and people who like to paint cars, all essential aspects of real world race teams etc, it's a very good synergy that others should copy.
- GT5 now has barrel rolls, so what? have they also sold out? do cars in real life not roll in races? I'd say it kills two birds with one stone.
- I have asked myself has it taken things further in the racing department, and the answer is, an incremental yes.. they certainly haven't gone backwards, they've improved several areas and added stuff, drag racing, touge, extensive race setup (MP), better tyre flex (even if not that visceral) to name but a few. There is loads of room for more, however, again, I have to use the 2 year dev cycle to put some perspective on what can be done in the time frame.
- On the 'active' steering issue, honestly, we all know it's there, but only casual people really moan about it, very very very few more hardcore/quick people even register it exists, because it doesn't bother them. Put it into context, all physics engines are flawed, they all require filtering/tweaks/special conditions, look at all the flaws of many games over the years. The game developer will add little things to the engine to overcome flaws, or to get a particular handling trait, the only issue with FM3 is that you can 'see' it in the telemetry, I bet if they hid it from the telemetry, people would not have batted an eye-lid, cars still wildly over-steer, plenty about the physics engine works as expected, it's odd how the people who see the videos come on and say how it ruins the game for them, and how they 'feel' the intervention so badly they can't play etc., oddly, they are almost exclusively rubbish at driving in the game, and largely describe side effects that can't even possibly be from this. If you actually play with it, you realise it's largely trying to stop snap over-steer, which may have been too aggressive in their physics model and had no time to sort out. I guarantee that any other racing game leaning towards simulation has numerous physics engine 'fixes' that if you knew about would create an equal reaction. End of the day, drive competitively in FM3, and the physics seem very good indeed. What does need improvement is having a more 'visceral' aspect to the physics, make it more edgy/harder to control, give people more 'reward' for effort etc, but that may mean making things a little exaggerated in places, and possibly not that realistic in terms of handling response, but it would feel more 'real' to the average joe.

Finally, no one is ignoring the flaws, that's just not true, we all see what is out there to see, however I don't think everyone is inclined to make a mountain out of a molehill, and have realistic expectations of what any developers priorities are, and what is realistically achievable in the time frames they have.

I honestly don't get how jaded you can be, you would think the game was rubbish/flawed and very unworthy according to your opinion, and all you can find to back it up is idiots on youtube, and of course, naturally you get some people that don't like it, however they are in the vast minority. Many of us really enjoy what was a very well received game, it takes a lot of skill to be competitive, and it's a lot of fun being part of the more organised communities.

I hope GT5 shakes it all up, I'm eagerly awaiting it, however, I'm still having fun with FM3, but then I play the game, not sit there in isolation with my 3 monitors and Turbo S just looking for the next thing to criticise.. :)
 
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I'd love a Fanatec wheel, but they're a bit too expensive for something I'd use pretty sparingly.

That said, Christmas is coming ;)


I'm so impressed with the Turbo S, and even more so with the Clubsport pedals, it's a really top notch wheel that certainly improved my laptimes.

It isn't perfect though, it has common glitches, hanging every now and again, requiring a reset, and it's quite fussy with some headsets, but what is perfect these days?
 
Bit of a noob, and probably best in a new thread but.. what advantages do the clubsport pedals have on the stock ones?
 
Demon,
Did you miss the part were I said you guys play whatever you want to play and whatever is best for you guys thats fine then play it.
As for making a mountain out of a molehill, did I? What you going on about as Ive not said the game is rubbish at all. You make a lot of things up in that reply that were not said at all. I tried to put across what the active steering does and in ways some players probably love the fact that its their in making them drive better. It is a definate factor to making FM3 easier to get into and play but for some ultimately less challenging to drive on the limit and I think thats a fair way to put it across. Maybe the OP wont or will mind this and it may be a deciding factor if he then chooses the Turbo S.

How many years had Codemasters to do F1 2010 and start from scratch?
Its going to have 12 cars online, weather, varying drying track, marbles, flags, racing rules, damage, pit crews, new gameplay features, high end graphics, decent physics and be a pretty good game. Its also likely to be one of the best console F1 games ever judging by its progress. This however is showing much more features in gameplay mechanics taking console gaming further than FM3 showed as an actual racing game in a similar development time.

So please dont go on about years in development as an excuse for FM3 short comings or lack of setting a new benchmark in changing or evolving. Forza does not try to emulate actual motorsports even though it includes hundreds of different cars. So in simulation yes it misses many things that "racing as a sport" entails. This is fine as it still can be a fun game to play and race others with but it hasnt changed much in its "racing" in three releases. You also fail to mention the amount of bugs and in particular bugs which migrated over from FM2 into FM3 that even their own official forums have people complaining about yet they get ignored.

GT5 with all its development time should be heavily criticised indeed. However we still dont exactly know what its going to have but most gamers expect its going to up the benchmark in several ways. Although a stark diffrence in that its certainly not making bold claims from its developers and falling below expectations the developers create of it while in development. FM3 has to be the most overhyped racing game in a long time and many people felt it fell a bit short of its expectations.
 
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The Turbo S is 100% guranteed to work with GT5

With the latest Firmware Update for these wheels Fanatec fixed the "wobble effect" GT5P produced and added many new features you dont get on a G27/G25.

snip

Any chance of a link to the firmware, i can find the "Turbo" firmware update, but not the "Turbo S"
 
Demon,
Did you miss the part were I said you guys play whatever you want to play and whatever is best for you guys thats fine then play it.
As for making a mountain out of a molehill, did I? What you going on about as Ive not said the game is rubbish at all. You make a lot of things up in that reply that were not said at all. I tried to put across what the active steering does and in ways some players probably love the fact that its their in making them drive better. It is a definate factor to making FM3 easier to get into and play but for some ultimately less challenging to drive on the limit and I think thats a fair way to put it across. Maybe the OP wont or will mind this and it may be a deciding factor if he then chooses the Turbo S.

How many years had Codemasters to do F1 2010 and start from scratch?
Its going to have 12 cars online, weather, varying drying track, marbles, flags, racing rules, damage, pit crews, new gameplay features, high end graphics, decent physics and be a pretty good game. Its also likely to be one of the best console F1 games ever judging by its progress. This however is showing much more features in gameplay mechanics taking console gaming further than FM3 showed as an actual racing game in a similar development time.

So please dont go on about years in development as an excuse for FM3 short comings or lack of setting a new benchmark in changing or evolving. Forza does not try to emulate actual motorsports even though it includes hundreds of different cars. So in simulation yes it misses many things that "racing as a sport" entails. This is fine as it still can be a fun game to play and race others with but it hasnt changed much in its "racing" in three releases. You also fail to mention the amount of bugs and in particular bugs which migrated over from FM2 into FM3 that even their own official forums have people complaing about yet they get ignored.

GT5 with all its development time should be heavily criticised indeed. However we still dont exactly know what its going to have but most gamers expect its going to up the benchmark in several ways. Although a stark diffrence in that its certainly not making bold claims from its developers and falling below expectations the developers create of it while in development. FM3 has to be the most overhyped racing game in a long time and many people felt it fell a bit short of its expectations.

I see you're at it again.

I had thought of replying to the points you try and make, but I thought I'd just smash my head against my desk for 10 minutes instead.
 
nvm,

I don't think Mr L realises that we all see the flaws, and no one is saying they don't exist, well the very few factual ones, but I don't think he can get his head around that fact you actually have two choices in this situation, you either obsess over them and let it ruin the game, claiming every new and upcoming game is going to be the best thing ever, and shame all current games, and just obsess over them as well, never realising the irony of your self feeding reactionary cycle, or simply look past the flaws, play the game for what it is, enjoy yourself, understand why the majority of the press thought it was a very good game, and be happy.. then when the next big thing comes along, rinse and repeat..

:D
 
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Although a stark diffrence in that its certainly not making bold claims from its developers and falling below expectations the developers create of it while in development.

Gran Turismo 5: The Real Driving Simulator.

That to me is a pretty bold claim.
 
Maybe the OP doesnt want to spend £80 extra getting X360 support to play I assume mostly FM3 and to find it has the steering issue.

I have pointed this out and HE can decide for himself.
I dont care in how your opinion differs and Im not going to argue over it, however I will respect you are entitled to your OWN opinion and have no problems with that we wont always agree.

However I am not trying to tell people game A is better than game B or any of that crap "streetch" or you are wanting to drag the usual GT5 stuff into it. I dont care really which game is your favourites but i make good comparison in how F1 2010 is doing things that FM3 could have done to push the envelope a little. Thats my criticisim of the game mainly that it didnt really push the boundaries more.

I wont however make a hoo haa out of it, call you names or disrespect you.
 
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Maybe the OP doesnt want to spend £80 extra getting X360 support to play I assume mostly FM3 and to find it has the steering issue.

This doesn't quite make sense, the 'issue' is not really an issue, it's just a small piece of the physics engine, no one actually cares about it, except people who are hapless at driving and sit around looking for stuff to put on youtube. And it's got nothing to do with using a wheel.. Are you seriously suggesting that the OP seriously has to consider if FM3 is worth playing because of that?
 
Mr Latte in GT5/FM3/whatever other car game thread ruin shocker...

What a surprise...

You really do ruin these threads with your opinion that you always seem to "push" on people.
 
This doesn't quite make sense, the 'issue' is not really an issue, it's just a small piece of the physics engine, no one actually cares about it, except people who are hapless at driving and sit around looking for stuff to put on youtube. And it's got nothing to do with using a wheel.. Are you seriously suggesting that the OP seriously has to consider if FM3 is worth playing because of that?

I thought I made it clear that in my opinion it can make the game easier to drive cars and requires less finesse or precise steering. The point is what other games as simulators have you found that use it?

It detracts from the challenge pure and simple.
Look if traction control was enabaled and locked it would be a similar thing its aiding the driver.

I repeat once again I have not said FM3 isnt fun to play but based on the SIMULATION aspect for a person buying a £400 wheel its a possible consideration for THEM to decide if it matters to THEM. So why your getting all hot and bothered over someone you see attacking your fave racing game is beyond me. I have even said that with the "AC" in the game it probably helps people enjoy the frigging game you numpty.

I dont get your issues and basically Im being told here tyring to help someone that Im not entitled to my own opinion.
 
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i never really knew that FM3 had active steering aids :( kinda makes it pointless getting some great awesome steering wheel only to have the game limit you.
silly question perhaps but i assume the active steering implentation is actually put into real cars not just within games?
 
i never really knew that FM3 had active steering aids :( kinda makes it pointless getting some great awesome steering wheel only to have the game limit you.
silly question perhaps but i assume the active steering implentation is actually put into real cars not just within games?

Thats why I showed the BMW video as it is in real cars and why or what it does. Simply a driving aid is all for safety and less effort.

Having it hidden in the game, unnanounced and not being able to turn it off is the point it was raised, not to fuel the FM3 worshipers seeing it as an attack on the game. Thats the problem with some people here they just cant accept any criticisim of the game and find ways to excuse it. Yet the same people will argue to they are blue in the face how great Forza physics etc are.
 
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I thought I made it clear that in my opinion it can make the game easier to drive cars and requires less finesse or precise steering. The point is what other games as simulators have you found that use it?

It detracts from the challenge pure and simple.
Look if traction control was enabaled and locked it would be a similar thing its aiding the driver.

I repeat once again I have not said FM3 isnt fun to play but based on the SIMULATION aspect for a person buying a £400 wheel its a possible consideration for THEM to decide if it matters to THEM. So why your getting all hot and bothered over someone you see attacking your fave racing game is beyond me. I have even said that with the "AC" in the game it probably helps people enjoy the frigging game you numpty.

I dont get your issues and basically Im being told here tyring to help someone that Im not entitled to my own opinion.

Look, I'll tell you flat out what the issue is with your 'advice'

You are telling the OP that he should consider not buying a wheel based on the fact you say FM3 has a steering issue, which you have purported via video's and wording to be something substantial.

However, I can't find one credible source that even mentions the issue.. Because in reality it isn't an issue, it's an interesting observation. The cars oversteer quite nicely, lift off oversteer, power oversteer, and snap oversteer are all present in abundance, if this 'issue' affected the physics in a way that was readily noticeable and had a tangible negative effect on the game overall, it'd be easy to find good trusted sources that backed it up, e.g. SRT..

All you've used as evidence is a youtube video of an interesting observation about something going on in the physics engine, and I know from personal experience, that the small number of people who complain on forums are almost exclusively poor drivers who purport to the car driving itself, which any good driver will tell you is so far from the truth it's laughable..

That's not to say it's perfect, it has many flaws, yada, yada, yada.. but taken as a whole, it's not remotely worth even worrying about..
 
i can see why actual cars require it, fair enough but as to why they did it in the game? why not cal it active steering aid or something and allow us to switch it off to allow realistic simulation. I've always enjoyed playing forza (2+3) and i do hope they decide to allow full simulation and not limit the hardcore/enthusiast racing fans. i know its a console and it will always be a case the console gamers are given dumbed down options for gaming due to the demograph that consoles are sold to.
 
Thats why I showed the BMW video as it is in real cars and why or what it does. Simply a driving aid is all for safety and less effort.

Having it hidden in the game, unnanounced and not being able to turn it off is the point it was raised, not to fuel the FM3 worshipers seeing it as an attack on the game. Thats the problem with some people here they just cant accept any criticisim of the game and find ways to excuse it. Yet the same people will argue to they are blue in the face how great Forza physics etc are.

But we all acknowledge the 'anomaly' exists? and no one is claiming Forza physics are anything other then reasonable to decent enough, with obvious room for improvement..

It's the impact of the anomaly that is in question, and on that basis, there is plenty to 'discuss'.

My stance is easy, and backed up by the reviews, it's a non issue.. your stance is it's a credible issue, backed up by youtube.. simple really..

Or have I missed something?
 
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