Bad experiences at the Doctors

[kylew]

My doctor being a complete retard (or should that be doctard?) claiming I was severely overweight at 18 stone (I am by no means slim at all, but 10 stone would be eating disorder territory for me) becase he was "10 stone". Now, I'm probably 8-10 inches taller than him, he's clearly in 60s, is quite frail and rather thin, and he bases the weight he thinks I should be, off his own...

I could do with losing a few stone, certainly not over 8 stone though, and to be told that by a so-called doctor was quite a surprise at the time.

Oh, he also could never diagnose what was once a chronic lower back condition I had, which hurt so much at times, I couldn't walk or stand up. He claimed it was non-existent. Strengthening my back muscles has done me a lot of good with regards to that, and I only get a mild ache at times now.

 

[wmb]

I remember when I went to see a doctor when I was not well (cold, sore throat etc). They gave me some prescriptions, so I went and paid £18 for some tablets. I felt robbed, I could have paid £3.50 for some medication from a pharmacy that would do the same trick.

Some people go to see a Doctor like 10+ times every year (I know that my manager is), I've seen a doctor once in the last 10 years LOL.

I wish I didn't have to pay NI and just pay for healthcare when needed.

Isn't this just a stealth tax on people who waste GP's times going to see them with colds?

 

[ethan]

Well I'm in the process of making a complaint with the practice manager and hope I am justified in doing so. About a month ago I went to see the Doc and complained about having lost my balance for a number of seconds- I was scarred it was a TIA. Anyway she mentioned she thought it was my ear(s) and not anything as serious as a TIA. She then said to call back if I had any more of these loss of balance issues. I must stress that when I say loss of balance I do not mean vertigo or dizziness-it is a situation when you just go to fall.

Anyway I had another instant loss of balance issue and a day or two later I broke my toe when I fell. I rang the surgery last Thursday afternoon and was advised to ring them again Friday morning as an emergency. by now I was having up to 30 falling episodes a day. Friday arrived and I rang only to be told they could not fit me in to see a doctor as an emergency because I was already under treatment from a consultant who I hadn't seen for six months due to vertigo. I was absolutely desperate to be seen and told the receptionist at the surgery I would be down in ten minutes to give the Nurse practitioner a piece of my mind for not allowing me to see a doctor.

When I got down to the surgery I was told the Nurse Practitioner was too busy to see me. I told the receptionists that the consultant was treating me for dizziness not for dropping to the floor withoult being dizzy. I also mentioned the fact that I had not medication for this kind of a complaint and that I also hadn't seen my consultant for six months (which later transpired to be because he had forgotten I was due to be reseen). I had intended to discuss with my doctor if they had let me see him. Anyway the situation got so desperate I threatened they would have to get the police to remove me from the building if they didn't let me see a doctor. The receptionists complained that they wanted to help me but their hands were tied. The Nurse practitioner still didn't see me and the receptionists off their own back discusserd my situation with the doctor after he walked through the door. He looked at my case files instantly and told the receptionists there was nothing he could do to help me as it was back to the consultant. At least he had the decency to look at my records and then express a legitimate medical opinion-I was greatful for that. I was however gutted. to be told there was nothing he could do. I had tears running down my cheek on hearing this. I couldn't talk. I put my hand up to the receptionist as if to say thank you and then walked out.

 

[heeeed]

I find all of this quite depressing reading, and I do feel sorry for those of you who have had mistakes made. I'm sure there have been some genuine mistakes made, but I also expect a lot of it is that people havent understood what the doctor has told them, or why he has taken his action or inaction as the case may be.

A lot of people have commented they saw a GP and he did very little initially and that eventually they saw someone else and were told what the problem was. This unfortunately is part of the way diagnoses are made, but it is very hard to explain this to a patient. Time changes a lot. what may appear to be a simple viral respiratory infection one week may get worse and turn out to be a nasty chest infection that requires treatment, but the fact that it didnn't get better is one of the most powerful diagnostic parts of the history that lets the second doctor make a different diagnosis and start a treatment. This doesnt mean the 1st was an idiot or did something wrong, it's just that they saw the illness at a different stage of it's progression.

The idea that if you saw a consultant every time you had a problem you thought needed a doctor one of two things would happen 1) the health service would implode as every consultant starting organising chest xrays and serum rhubarbs on all and sundry with minor conditions that 'could' be a more serious condition. Or 2) those consultants that we like to feel are infallable, would start sending people home with advice of lets see how this pans out for a week or so , but come back if it gets worse. i.e. manage it in exactly the same way.

As a junior doctor I saw countless cases come to medical or surgical admissions where I arrogantly thought their GP was a numpty for not having done x,y,or z and assumed that I with my year or 2 experience knew better and would revel in the way my organising various tests and confidently starting them on a treatment would elevate me beyond their GP in their eyes. Well I can tell you having been 1st GP, 2nd GP, hospital doctor and patient at various times in my life and seen it from all angles it ain't quite so black and white as you might think.

I don't mean to sound patronising, although I accept it may be hard not to, but maybe just maybe those GP's you saw who you disagreed with might know a fair bit about medicine and had a good reason for doing what they did even if it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

I hope all of those people that actually saw me today, had my time and made me finish my surgery 1.5 hours later than it should have, did at least feel listened to. Hopefully they feel better able to cope with their illnesses or problems, but I accept that some of them may be back to see me next week as I didn't sort it 1st time, but that is medicine for you.

Anyway thats the end of my rant from a tired GP who didnt finish till nearly 7 tonight and finds hearing how undervalued he is slightly disconcerting

 

[Rainmaker]

I find all of this quite depressing reading...

Anyway thats the end of my rant from a tired GP who didnt finish till nearly 7 tonight and finds hearing how undervalued he is slightly disconcerting

Doctors like you, I have absolutely no issue with. I also take on board, and agree with, what you have said. In my case though there's really no excuse for it (as I'm sure you'd agree with full access to my history etc). To leave a child screaming in pain for 10 years, with brown urine and the shakes, telling them it's psychological and that they need to 'get a grip and go away', only to have it turn out to be a serious nephrotic disorder is a bit beyond the pale. Unfortunately in my case no less than five GPs had around 10 years to spot it (with weekly visits no less!) but just wrote me off as some kind of under-age nutcase.

Even now I'm struggling to be heard due to my notes. I'm lucky in that my new GP seems to be much more like you. He listens, actually took time to ask me about ME when I met him the first time after moving house (and thus surgeries), and tutted a great deal while telling me he wouldn't be writing anyone off due to their notes from a clearly negligent doctor years ago.

Unfortunately though, not all GPs are as good as he, or you, appear to be. I've lost count of the number of times I've had my scrips revoked (mostly pain meds) because "I might be better on anti psychotics/depressants/anxiety drugs/insert fad here" as I seem to be suffering from a lot of psychosomatic disorders.

Once I show them my scar (Hines-Anderson pyeloplasty) and ask how psychosomatic pain caused me to have one of those, they tend to become more willing to hear the whole story and stop reading notes from 15 years ago. It's a right pain though as I'm basically labelled for life now, through no fault of my own. The funny thing is I've never suffered mental illness (thankfully) - they just read the headlines of my notes and start booking the rubber room.

 

[heeeed]

they just read the headlines of my notes and start booking the rubber room.

You could ask them to remove those read codes from your active problem list. I cant speak for all GP software, but all the ones I have used can take something off a problem list. This doesnt remove it from your record, but will remove it from being the first thing they see on your notes and reduce the chance of any prejudice you suffer

 

[Rainmaker]

You could ask them to remove those read codes from your active problem list. I cant speak for all GP software, but all the ones I have used can take something off a problem list. This doesnt remove it from your record, but will remove it from being the first thing they see on your notes and reduce the chance of any prejudice you suffer

Thanks for the tip, I'd never thought to actually ask. As I said I'd explained my story to the new GP and he's been very helpful indeed. I still see "anxiety" and suchlike on the screen when I visit so as you say if I can get those removed that'd be a huge help in future (locums etc). Cheers.

 

[Saytan]

it's important to remember that the average GP has a broad but shallow pool of knowledge.

 

[chrisd]

good post

Unfortunately I don't think you're going to convince all of the medical experts in here.

 

[stockhausen]

... In my case though there's really no excuse for it (as I'm sure you'd agree with full access to my history etc). ...

For what it is worth, I understand that many medical practitioners believe that many claimed cases of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis / Chronic Fatigue Syndrome have a significant psychological element.

As to getting your GP to "edit" the records accumulated over some ten years by at least five seemingly incompetent professionals to be more acceptable to you - why bother? Surely with your expertise and a little Googling, you can get all the treatment you know you need?

Incidentally, what has become of the complaint that I am sure you will have made about the many incompetent Doctors involved in your mis-diagnosis? With full access to your history, etc. it should be an open-and-shut case for the GMC.

 

[ChrisJSY]

Snip

I agree completely, but the sad fact of the matter is a lot of GPs seems to have a jaded/lethargic attitude towards patients. All I hear from people are stories of having problems and multiple visits, years and years of problems before anything is done and then found out they do indeed have semi-serious problems. I have experience this myself as well.

Not to mention 2 people who've had certain treatments denied because of their ill health and by ill health I mean incorrect records that's saying they shouldn't be on this or that medication or cannot have this or that procedure.

But this down to the individual person and/or practice, there just a huge number of them who in all honesty have lost their touch or simply never had it.
It could be Jersey, I don't ever hear of people saying they have good ones when I ask. It's always the same story, but hey at least we can get appointments same day instead of the insane waits I hear about in the UK!

Edit: But I don't even know how to approach a new doctor without sounding like a hypochondriac, I have quite a few things I really need sorted
So I have to what, slowly over some period of time keep visiting and end up like my last doctor (not giving a ****?) great, it's all trial and error isn't it!

 

[Rainmaker]

For what it is worth, I understand that many medical practitioners believe that many claimed cases of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis / Chronic Fatigue Syndrome have a significant psychological element.

As to getting your GP to "edit" the records accumulated over some ten years by at least five seemingly incompetent professionals to be more acceptable to you - why bother? Surely with your expertise and a little Googling, you can get all the treatment you know you need?

Incidentally, what has become of the complaint that I am sure you will have made about the many incompetent Doctors involved in your mis-diagnosis? With full access to your history, etc. it should be an open-and-shut case for the GMC.

Wow, that's quite a reply. First of all, I was referring to the fact my parents' GP practice left me with undiagnosed bilateral hydronephrosis for over 10 years. Nothing else. My kidney surgeon (urologist) did indeed provide my dad's solicitor with a statement supporting the dismissal of the doctors involved as he said it was a clear cut case of neglect, and only sheer chance led to him being able to save my life. A paediatric nephrologist from Manchester and a Harley street urologist agreed and likewise provided reports in the same vein. You don't get doctors saying that about their colleagues without very good reason.

In those 10 years I suffered growing up, not once did the GPs involved (all at the same practice) send me for tests. No ultrasound, no IVP, nothing. Since I was under 18 at the time it fell to my parents to make a complaint, but my dad decided to sue for cash instead (my eyes roll with yours) and eventually let the complaint fall down due to statutory limitations. Personally I wish they'd just brought it to the GMC.

It's not about making my notes more acceptable "to me", it's about ensuring I get fairly treated during any future interaction with medical personnel. If you developed a blazing headache tomorrow that lasted a month, and went to a GP, would you be happy if they said it was a mental illness because they'd heard from a doctor 10 years ago that you were a hypochondriac - when it was clearly (and demonstrably) false information?

 

[Psymonkee]

I had a lovely burning heat in my shin. Off to the doctor to be told it was probably just a rash and to use some ointment. A week later and still burning and actually distracting me from working.

Return to the docs, different doctor who immediately told me it was Cellulitis. Now my shin is a funny shape and the ankle swells easily

Other story is the last year or so. Severely blocked nose despite no cold. Dad (who'd recently had a septoplasty) encouraged me to go and get it checked out. 3 different docs come up with 2 different diagnosis's and prescribe varying strengths of nasal spray.

Fed up I go back and ask to be referred to the ENT surgeon. He takes a look up one nostril - nothing. Septum is nice and straight though. Takes a look at the second nostril and immediately proclaims why I'm having problems breathing.

I still have my Adenoids which should have shrunk. Surgery suggested but delayed due to concerns about anaesthesia.


Fun stuff

 

[The Funktopus]

My dad began suffering from a dull ache in his groin that grew steadily worse from early 2007 onwards. He began seeing his GP a week after it started, and having a false hip from the age of 50 it was diagnosed simply as wear and tear on the joint, and he was referred to an orthopaedic surgeon. However, the pain in his groin grew worse, and he began exhibiting other symptoms, such as fatigue, vomiting and weight loss. Time and time again he went to the GP, and time and time again he was flippantly dismissed as having a worn replacement hip-joint and perhaps the flu, or a virus to explain his other symptoms. He was never examined, there were no diagnostics such as scans or xrays despite his medical history (my dad had suffered from bladder cancer between 2003-2005, and it was on record that he would be susceptible to secondary cancers for the rest of his life), and each time the GP's just seemed to jump on this conclusion that it must be his new hip-joint, it never seemed to occur to them that his other symptoms could possibly be linked either.

As summer turned to winter dad's condition worsened, and during November 2007 I found my dad keeled over on the bathroom floor one morning, crying from the pain he was in. At that point I rushed him to hospital, and spent 13 hours with him to see an A&E doctor who again, tried to explain my dad's symptoms away as a mere virus and again, a worn hip-joint and tried to send him away with yet more painkillers and a promise to follow up on his referral to an orthopaedic surgeon. At this point I lost it, I told the doctor in no uncertain terms that it seemed he was far more interested in just getting my dad out the door, and that in my eyes he was treating him as a mere nuisance to be gotten rid of, and not a person in dire need of help. In my view, my dad's condition wouldn't be a quick and easy fix thus they didn't want to know in case it effect their precious stats, and I insisted that we weren't leaving until someone took my dad's treatment seriously.

A susbsequent blood test revealed that my dad had certain anti-bodies present that indicated the presence of cancer cells, and two days later my dad was called back to the hospital to see an oncologist, who referred him for an urgent MRI scan. This revealed enlarged lymph nodes, caused by advanced lymphatic cancer. My dad was given a terminal diagnosis in January 2008, and despite several courses of chemotherapy in an attempt to buy him more time, he sadly passed away on the 7th September 2008 at Warrington hospital.

My dad died in agony that morning despite being on the maximum safe dose of morphine, grey and sallow and desperately drawing rasping breaths from his oxygen mask as he fought frantically to cling to life. I recall, as I sat by his bedside watching him fade that I was imploring him in my mind to just let go, to just stop breathing and spare himself some of what he was enduring. When he eventually did pass, I remember among the usual emotions you'd expect when a loved one dies, a sliver or relief that it was all over, that I didn't have to watch him suffer anymore. I've struggled with an overwhelming sense of guilt since then for allowing myself that moment of selfishness when the man who'd raised me, who'd loved from the moment I was born had just died such a cruel and horrible death. I don't think the trauma of my dad's death, or the guilt I've felt since will ever leave me. Still to this day I'll sometimes wake in the night in tears at what happened to my dad, and as I post this I'll admit that I'm struggling to hold them back now, nearly two years on.

 

[RedDanDoc]

My dad began suffering from a dull ache in his groin that grew steadily worse from early 2007 onwards. He began seeing his GP a week after it started, and having a false hip from the age of 50 it was diagnosed simply as wear and tear on the joint, and he was referred to an orthopaedic surgeon. However, the pain in his groin grew worse, and he began exhibiting other symptoms, such as fatigue, vomiting and weight loss. Time and time again he went to the GP, and time and time again he was flippantly dismissed as having a worn replacement hip-joint and perhaps the flu, or a virus to explain his other symptoms. He was never examined, there were no diagnostics such as scans or xrays despite his medical history (my dad had suffered from bladder cancer between 2003-2005, and it was on record that he would be susceptible to secondary cancers for the rest of his life), and each time the GP's just seemed to jump on this conclusion that it must be his new hip-joint, it never seemed to occur to them that his other symptoms could possibly be linked either.

As summer turned to winter dad's condition worsened, and during November 2007 I found my dad keeled over on the bathroom floor one morning, crying from the pain he was in. At that point I rushed him to hospital, and spent 13 hours with him to see an A&E doctor who again, tried to explain my dad's symptoms away as a mere virus and again, a worn hip-joint and tried to send him away with yet more painkillers and a promise to follow up on his referral to an orthopaedic surgeon. At this point I lost it, I told the doctor in no uncertain terms that it seemed he was far more interested in just getting my dad out the door, and that in my eyes he was treating him as a mere nuisance to be gotten rid of, and not a person in dire need of help. In my view, my dad's condition wouldn't be a quick and easy fix thus they didn't want to know in case it effect their precious stats, and I insisted that we weren't leaving until someone took my dad's treatment seriously.

A susbsequent blood test revealed that my dad had certain anti-bodies present that indicated the presence of cancer cells, and two days later my dad was called back to the hospital to see an oncologist, who referred him for an urgent MRI scan. This revealed enlarged lymph nodes, caused by advanced lymphatic cancer. My dad was given a terminal diagnosis in January 2008, and despite several courses of chemotherapy in an attempt to buy him more time, he sadly passed away on the 7th September 2008 at Warrington hospital.

My dad died in agony that morning despite being on the maximum safe dose of morphine, grey and sallow and desperately drawing rasping breaths from his oxygen mask as he fought frantically to cling to life. I recall, as I sat by his bedside watching him fade that I was imploring him in my mind to just let go, to just stop breathing and spare himself some of what he was enduring. When he eventually did pass, I remember among the usual emotions you'd expect when a loved one dies, a sliver or relief that it was all over, that I didn't have to watch him suffer anymore. I've struggled with an overwhelming sense of guilt since then for allowing myself that moment of selfishness when the man who'd raised me, who'd loved from the moment I was born had just died such a cruel and horrible death. I don't think the trauma of my dad's death, or the guilt I've felt since will ever leave me. Still to this day I'll sometimes wake in the night in tears at what happened to my dad, and as I post this I'll admit that I'm struggling to hold them back now, nearly two years on.

Thats really tragic mate. I feel for you. It must have been difficult for you.

 

[St0rmer66]

A few years ago my girlfriend (before I met her) had general fatigue all of the time, couldn't eat much food before feeling stuffed to the brim as if she'd had a 3 course meal, was urinating near enough every 30mins and various other little things. All of it added up to not being quite right. She was repeatedly told nothing was wrong with her for approx a year. Only when there was a visible bulge growing from her lower abdomen did any doctor even begin to take her seriously . She had ovarian cancer, the tumour was HUGE inside her, but because they hadn't done any tests they had repeatedly missed it until you could literally see it bulging out of her body. Luckily she had surgery and all of it was successfully removed (though it took months of recovery and she still has a large scar)... but it could have been SOOOO much worse and could have been a much more simple procedure if they had just done some simple tests . It annoys me so much even thinking about it and hearing all of the stories in this thread just makes me even more riled up about the NHS . Makes me consider getting health insurance so I can go private even at my age (22).

 

[frosty03]

I'm not saying I agree with below, but its the facts. I actually disagree with the way medicine is practised here in the UK.

GPs in the UK are not "doctors" as their primary function. Doctors being defined as somebody who is there chiefly to make YOU better.

In the UK, their main role is gatekeeping. Rationing being the cruder word.

The NHS being free at the point of delivery, is simply a bottomless pit of "need". With no limits on an individual, if there isnt any brakes put on, 1 individual can easily consume millions of resources, with diminishing returns.

So the GPs come into play. They are there to practice "socialist" medicine. To spread out resources for the "good of the many". So they have to follow all sorts of "guidelines", usually set up by NICE and the like. Most of the NICE recommendations are based on "cost effectiveness" rather than sole clinical benefit.

Not saying hospital docs dont do the same, but GPs are the primary gatekeeper into the NHS. Every GP sees about 32 patients PER day (assume full days work). If they each refer or send more than 1 or 2 to hospital for either more checks, or a specialist opinion, then the entire NHS will implode with the weight of demand. Sadly, on some occasions, more than 1 or 2 WILL need hospital care, but because they cannot refer everybody, their threshold will be rather high, and serious things get missed, since they often mimic benign self-limiting conditions early on.

It is a fine line they walk, if they refer too many, the PCT starts getting on their backs, and may even decide to refer them to the GMC for practicing at a "lower standard" compared to the others. Too few, and they will miss serious things.

 

[Infam0us]

Was expecting a Peter Griffin type incident in here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHKTE75dgE4

?

 

[stockhausen]

Wow, that's quite a reply. First of all, I was referring to the fact my parents' GP practice left me with undiagnosed bilateral hydronephrosis for over 10 years. Nothing else. My kidney surgeon (urologist) did indeed provide my dad's solicitor with a statement supporting the dismissal of the doctors involved as he said it was a clear cut case of neglect, and only sheer chance led to him being able to save my life. A paediatric nephrologist from Manchester and a Harley street urologist agreed and likewise provided reports in the same vein. You don't get doctors saying that about their colleagues without very good reason.

In those 10 years I suffered growing up, not once did the GPs involved (all at the same practice) send me for tests. No ultrasound, no IVP, nothing. Since I was under 18 at the time it fell to my parents to make a complaint, but my dad decided to sue for cash instead (my eyes roll with yours) and eventually let the complaint fall down due to statutory limitations. Personally I wish they'd just brought it to the GMC.

It's not about making my notes more acceptable "to me", it's about ensuring I get fairly treated during any future interaction with medical personnel. If you developed a blazing headache tomorrow that lasted a month, and went to a GP, would you be happy if they said it was a mental illness because they'd heard from a doctor 10 years ago that you were a hypochondriac - when it was clearly (and demonstrably) false information?

I can't claim to have read all of your posts but I gather that in your time you have had undiagnosed extreme bilateral hydronephrosis which apparently left you within a week or two of dying; you are an asthmatic and have recently suffered a deep lung infection and now fear that you may now be suffering transient ischemic attacks. You certainly sound like a very unhealthy individual.

As to your parents choosing to spend years chasing the compensation rather than using the evidence of your Urologist, a Paediatric Nephrologist and a Harley Street Urologist to highlight such a clear case of repeated medical incompetence and negligence, as you suggest, you can hardly blame the medical profession for that.

You say that your notes describe you as an anxiety ridden, hypochondriac, drug seeker all as a result of your being unfairly labelled due to the negligence of various doctors dating back to your childhood. You say that this is clearly and demonstrably false information. Personally, I would say that it is an expression of judgement and as such is hard to prove either way; much of medical judgement is hard to prove and yet is still of value. However, I can only repeat what heeeed has suggested:

You could ask them to remove those read codes from your active problem list. I cant speak for all GP software, but all the ones I have used can take something off a problem list. This doesnt remove it from your record, but will remove it from being the first thing they see on your notes and reduce the chance of any prejudice you suffer

Either that or change GP - I suspect that your current practice would understand.


The point I am really trying to make here is that much of medicine is not binary (in the way that a broken leg is) but is a matter of judgement. Wherever judgement is involved, people can get it wrong - stuff happens.

Someone gets bitten by a gnat, gets a lump and rushes to Google to discover that they are about to die of the Bubonic Plague; they go to their overworked GP as an emergency appointment and s/he has the temerity to dismisses them as a loony without ordering a raft of expensive investigations.

We now live in a society where most people believe that every condition can be diagnosed and treated; the only barriers to such diagnosis and treatment is laziness and incompetence by the medical profession and penny-pinching by the state (or by insurance companies). This unrealistic attitude is encouraged by greedy, unscrupulous ambulance chasing lawyers. As a result, patients are wasting the time of GPs and Hospital Consultants, making their lives highly stressful and forcing them to act defensively and waste still more time and money.

 

[Edrof]

Someone gets bitten by a gnat, gets a lump and rushes to Google to discover that they are about to die of the Bubonic Plague; they go to their overworked GP as an emergency appointment and s/he has the temerity to dismisses them as a loony without ordering a raft of expensive investigations.

We now live in a society where most people believe that every condition can be diagnosed and treated; the only barriers to such diagnosis and treatment is laziness and incompetence by the medical profession and penny-pinching by the state (or by insurance companies). This unrealistic attitude is encouraged by greedy, unscrupulous ambulance chasing lawyers. As a result, patients are wasting the time of GPs and Hospital Consultants, making their lives highly stressful and forcing them to act defensively and waste still more time and money.

I think people in general are a reasonable bunch and understand that much of a doctor's workload comes down to judgement. I think if you read most of the complaints in this trhead you will see that most people are not complaining about errors of judgement but actually downright incompetance.

I think that if GPs were paid a more realistic wage people like me would be less inclined to question them. You talk of greedy ambulance chasers, yet how many GPs have agreed to lower their own wages to help out the NHS?

I have heard that the average wage is about £100,000, is this correct? What is a GP actually worth?