Publishers crusades against pre-owned games justified?

The problem lies with the developers, most games that lack solid online play are completed in a matter of days. This leads all hardcore gamers going out buying games on release completing them within a week, trading them in to buy the new game that week.
At this point casual camers come in, and pre-owed games are already available for sale and choose to buy these instead at a slight saving.

Game developers need to start making much more involving games so that the new sale shelf life last long enough to make a proffit.

Dont get me wrong places selling pre-owed games are just theifs charging a few quid less than a fresh copy of the game to maximise their proffits and make the developers problems of short lived games even worse
 
Nickg said:
thats the same in a supermarket too.. unless its in the top 10 u dont get it.
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Depends on the store. Where I work, we have a rather large selection of games - both chart and non-chart - for all platforms (except PC and PSP which have been phased out).
 
They should perhaps be looking at why their games are being traded in because if nobody traded in their game then there'd be no second hand market for it, I'm sure the likes of PD with GT5 won't share this problem.

The trouble is too many shoddy/rushed titles are being released these days with a full asking price of £40 and are clearly not worth it, I agree retailers should not be selling new games at above RRP to boost second hand sales but it sounds like the publishers don't want a second hand market period, so they can sell you a sub-par product and you'll be stuck with it, a lot of games these days already get locked to your own personal account preventing it from being sold on.

They're just getting greedier and greedier like the music industry.
 
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I have to say, I'm really surprised how many people are with the game companies on this one.

So basically, 2nd hand game retailers are greedy, and push the products they make more money on. Not a huge shock, but ok. Games companies don't like this - it's costing them sales. I'm not convinced personally; as mentioned earlier in this thread, I don't believe one second hand sale equates to one lost full price sale; but ok, let's run with that.

Here's where I have the big issue. They punish the consumer. Not the second hand games shop. That seems like a really stupid idea to me.

If a consumer is buying games second hand, surely what they're telling you is that your game is too expensive for them. So your plan to counter this is to charge them more? Well, that's going to get them flooding back to new game purchases. And if games companies are so mad about the second hand market, why do Game and Gamestation get so many games with exclusive content on pre-orders? I'm not talking about normal pre-order bonuses, I'm talking about stuff like Dead Rising 2 (with GAME exclusive ninja theme pack). Or EA's massive hypocrisy, with the Dante's Inferno GAME Exclusive Death Edition or Dragon Age: Origins GAME Exclusive Collector's Edition.

You go EA, way to show those 2nd hand retailers who's boss :rolleyes:

I think it's also a little naive to say the poor defenceless game companies get nothing from 2nd hand sales, bearing in mind the amount of DLC that's released inside of a few weeks of a game's launch (how many Dragon Age add-ons are there now?). Especially those ones that cost £6/7 and then turn out to be a 70kb download (you hang your head in shame Resident Evil).

Don't even get me started on the BF:BC2 VIP code. 6 "VIP" map packs in and I've got 4 "new" Rush maps that were already on the disc and available in other game modes? I think EA and I have different ideas about what VIP means...

The way I see it there's a couple of easy options.

Make games cheaper on launch - I'm fairly sure cheaper games will lead to more new game sales. They'll also reduce the value of the second hand market. If you don't want to do that...

Sell them cheaper direct - who's going to pay £40 to Game if you can get it for £30 direct from EA? Plus, won't they make more money, since they don't have to allow for the retailers share? Hell, sell them for £25 via PSN/Steam/XBL and you'll pretty much devastate the game shops.

Incentivise new game purchases - And I don't mean "Get a really poxy gun you'll never use online" for free. I mean something like "Get the first DLC that was clearly ready for the launch day but we held it back so we could charge for it" for free. Or "Get something we're actually never going to release otherwise and it's awesome". And stop doing exclusive incentives for retailers that you have such a beef with.

Make the games shops provide the VIP code - Game puts a code in every second hand online game - every time it's activated, they get charged a fiver. Online doesn't work until you enter the code. Game won't play ball? They don't get Call of Duty: Modern Black Ops Warfare 26.

I amazed so many people on here are sticking up for the game companies gouging us. Personally I'm not buying any more EA sports games, I won't be buying BF:BC3 and I'll be done with COD the second they start charging for it.

Let this slide now, and within a couple of years we could well be paying £40 for BFBC4, plus £10 to play online, plus £1 for each gun and £3 for each map.
 
anticonscience said:
I know my opinion on game may be harsh, but I have really taken a dislike to them and their business practices of late.

They are a completely unethical firm.
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Not many firms can really be considered ethical really, their main purpose is to make money regardless of ethics.

I would say many publishers are just as bad if not worse with restrictive DRM.
 
shorttricky said:
I have to say, I'm really surprised how many people are with the game companies on this one.

So basically, 2nd hand game retailers are greedy, and push the products they make more money on. Not a huge shock, but ok. Games companies don't like this - it's costing them sales. I'm not convinced personally; as mentioned earlier in this thread, I don't believe one second hand sale equates to one lost full price sale; but ok, let's run with that.

Here's where I have the big issue. They punish the consumer. Not the second hand games shop. That seems like a really stupid idea to me.
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you are however, not a consumer of the developers products.

You are a consumer purely of the shops purchase. Hence the developers dont care about you.

Dont want to be stung ? simple... buy new and buy smart, either on-line or from supermarkets. I saved £15 on buying lego harry potter for my lad by buying it from sainsburys. All the advantages of a new game, but at £25, even less than what the greedy game stores would charge for a 2nd hand copy.

That way, the developer wins because they've got their share, and sold a new game. You win because you've got a discount, and the only person that looses out is the game stores that wont match the supermarkets prices.
 
Why do people insist on dragging car analogies into this?

Look at this way.

If I bought a car from Toyota brand new for £14,995, and took it home and tried to sell it at £14,495, do you think anyone would purchase it second hand when I am asking near as damn it (and quiet possibly what a dealer would offer it for after discount) close to list price? No, they wouldn't, they would come round and laugh at me and hammer me down on price of my second hand car.

Yes there are certain times when due to limited production numbers/waiting lists cars sell above list price, but this is certainly not the norm in the motor trade.

But this is exactly what Game/Gamestation/Gamestop are doing with games.
 
MrLOL said:
you are however, not a consumer of the developers products.

You are a consumer purely of the shops purchase. Hence the developers dont care about you.

Dont want to be stung ? simple... buy new and buy smart, either on-line or from supermarkets. I saved £15 on buying lego harry potter for my lad by buying it from sainsburys. All the advantages of a new game, but at £25, even less than what the greedy game stores would charge for a 2nd hand copy.

That way, the developer wins because they've got their share, and sold a new game. You win because you've got a discount, and the only person that looses out is the game stores that wont match the supermarkets prices.
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Exactly. I really struggle to understand why others fail to see this. A bit of careful, or researched shopping, usually results in being able to buy new games for less new than secondhand. I haven't paid more than £35 for a game, even on release day (this will soon be broken though by both my GT5 and Fallout NV CEs!).
 
shame there isn't a option like steam for consoles, would be nice to buy games at £5 during a digital sale when the game makers still make money rather than £35 for something of which none of the money goes to the original maker.

What makes second hand games any different from those people who used to sell pirated games on street corners before the internet made piracy so easy? they still had to buy games to start copying them.
 
Kotu said:
shame there isn't a option like steam for consoles, would be nice to buy games at £5 during a digital sale when the game makers still make money rather than £35 for something of which none of the money goes to the original maker.

What makes second hand games any different from those people who used to sell pirated games on street corners before the internet made piracy so easy? they still had to buy games to start copying them.
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That would be great, just wish either Valve build a console, or they took over the PSN side of the Playstation. Happy days:)
 
Kotu said:
shame there isn't a option like steam for consoles, would be nice to buy games at £5 during a digital sale when the game makers still make money rather than £35 for something of which none of the money goes to the original maker.

What makes second hand games any different from those people who used to sell pirated games on street corners before the internet made piracy so easy? they still had to buy games to start copying them.
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trouble is Microsoft is very controlling about what happens on its platform

Valve wanted to release updates to the orange box, to bring TF in line with the PC version (all the unlocks and awards etc..) and they got told they couldnt do it. It was "too much" free content and would have to be a new game. As a result the orange box on 360 has remained largely the same as it did at release - and is now massively distanced from its PC equivalent.

the BBC wanted to bring BBC iplayer to the xbox like it has with the Wii and PS3. Being pubicly funded you couldnt charge for access to iplayer so they wanted to release it for free. Microsoft wouldnt allow it and said it had to be paid for bonus as part of xbox live gold. BBC cant charge for it so as a result iplayer will never officially be on the xbox.

Its stuff like that, that will ensure publishers never get allowed to go off giving stuff away or selling stuff cheap as MS wont allow it.
 
sheesh, I have the Orange Box on the 360 and I would love to get some free content for it as it might bring players back. Such a shame MS have that policy.
 
The trouble is, there's only so far you can drop the price of games, you can't really be selling them all at <£15.

Even if you drop them to about £20-25 brand new, there will still be people who want a bargain and will take the secondhand product which is a little cheaper.

Sure, many people in full time employment will afford to buy that new, as they spend just as much on things like and evening out, or petrol etc....

The people it won't change are children on limited money who will use tradeins as they are cheaper. Plus people on limited incomes and benefits.

Dropping the RRP of games won't change this issue, it will just mean even less money goes to the Developers.
 
An article just came up on Ars about this


Online play costs very real money to implement and support. Resales of a game only provides revenue to the retailer, with the publisher stuck paying the bills for the online features everyone uses.
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So someone purchases the game and pays money that covers the cost of online play for one person for the "life" of server (until they decide to turn it off). He sells the game so then he can't use the server. This new person plays it online but there is still only ONE person being able to use that game online. So there isn't any loss to the publisher from that person playing online as the money has already been paid and the original purchaser is no longer online.

The writer of that article is an idiot.
 
^

That is no different to what we have already been discussing here in terms of lost revenue to the Publishers. Clearly we currently have games on the market which use servers that are maintained by a Publisher, yet don't pay an online fee to play. However, the money to run that server doesn't come out of thin air. It comes from the fact that the Publisher needs to sell the game brand new, to generate a profit. This is what they've always relied on and the further the secondhand market is pushed, the less they can afford to do so. Even an older game, sold brand new at half that of the original price would bring in money to the Publisher to do so. Buying second hand gives them nothing.

It would most likely mean that games that have been out for a longer time, with a small player base will have their servers shut off and re-tasked.
 
i think the small fee to access multiplayer on 2nd hand games is the way round this.

They get their share, and if consumers of purely 2nd hand games stop buying second hand games, the only person to loose will be the game shops. Nobody else gets a cut of second hand games. So they will mos likely drop the prices to bring people back. This stops them selling 2nd hand games for £3 less than new ones and profiteering and the publisher gets their share.

If you buy a game 2nd hand and dont like it, and dont activate the multiplayer, then you could even get the game cheaper

Everybody wins !
 
Yeah, I think that's the best solution and looking at the way things have been going, it's what many have already started to implement.

I'm positive that Black Ops, which will no doubt be the biggest seller of the year will have something or other to this extent.
 
In Game at lunch.

Toy Story 3 - £39.99 new, £34.99 preowned
Read Read Reemption - £39.99 new, £34.99 preowned
MW2 - £34.99 preowned, not a single new copy available to buy on either PS3/360.
 
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