A question about employment law

Bleek

Bleek

Bleek

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Hopefully someone can help with this.

If an employee is being actively monitored for time keeping via door access and CCTV is it reasonable for that employee to ask the same of his immediate colleagues working to the same job specification/contract?

And if so should that evidence/information be available to the employee?
 
i don't think you can ask for your colleagues to be monitored, but you should certainly be able to see the data they are keeping on you under the freedom of information act ?
 
Bleek said:
Hopefully someone can help with this.

If an employee is being actively monitored for time keeping via door access and CCTV is it reasonable for that employee to ask the same of his immediate colleagues working to the same job specification/contract?

And if so should that evidence/information be available to the employee?
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well it is a requirement that he is treated the same as other employees, so the company would need to be sure that this is happening.

edit: I would see time monitoring in this way as a good thing as it is easy to make sure you are on time and there will be an absolute measurement.

The data should be part of any decision report.
 
I'm not disputing time monitoring as an issue, I'm wondering whether or not that information on his/her peers in the exact same role (working to the same time keeping guidelines) should be made available to this employee.

Can he/she demand it by law?
 
In addition they are also arguing that the timestamp could be incorrect i.e. the PC that hosts the CCTV system may be fast and we need to somehow confirm that collected data is correct at the time or print.

I take it if we can't then all prior evidence to this point of request isn't valid? I.e. we have to start confirming the accuracy of the clock now because we didn't before and therefore can't guarantee the accuracy of the CCTV footage?
 
AFIK no, however should the employee later take it to tribunal and can prove/convince the tribunal that other people were being late and not monitored, it will be necessary for the Employer to show the records kept on other employees to the tribunal.

If no other employees were monitored or if they were and no action were taken aginast them, expect to lose the tribunal.

My boss once wanted me to get rid of a guy he didn't rate for poor time keeping until I pointed out that two of his best employees had even worse time keeping and we would lose at tribunal.
 
Can person x demand information about person y from the employer? Or can person x demand information about themselves from the employer?
Under the DPA (1998) the 2nd scenario is possible (there are a few exceptions), Section 7.
Section 14 (iirc) ensures that data must be accurate, and you can get inaccurate data to be removed. Data is inaccurate if they are incorrect or misleading as to any matter of fact.
 
You have problems then and the guy seems to know his stuff.

We have an appauling time keeping cctv system which loses at least 5 to 10 minutes per month.

Many a time in the past I've had my boss start shouting at the staff as he thought they were all leaving ten minutes early. He checks the time first now.

Although you are checking the time keeping accuracy now, you have a much weakened case. Who is to say that it wasn;t wrong and somebody has since changed the pc's time? How can you prove that your not replaced/fixed the computer since the records were started?
 
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So if we can't prove accurate records were kept for say, the past two months i.e. the system time cannot be verified against an external source (atomic clock, GMT etc), then the evidence is considered inaccurate and admissible?
 
Bleek said:
So if we can't prove accurate records were kept for say, the past two months i.e. the system time cannot be verified against an external source (atomic clock, GMT etc), then the evidence is considered inaccurate and admissible?
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Umh, the Court can rule that the data held is inaccurate and as such can rule that it the data is to be "rectify[ed], block[ed], erase[d] or destroy[ed] ... ...any other personal data in respect of which he is the data controller and which contain an expression of opinion which appears to the court to be based on the inaccurate data." (DPA 1998, 14, (1)).
The second part of this would allow you to have the removal of any records that you have poor timekeeping based on the data collected.

Though, it's a difficult case. I'm not sure how you'd prove the clocks were wrong, and surely you'd be working to the clock anyway? So if the clock is 10 minutes fast, you'd still work your contractual hours and leave as such... I have no idea how you'd argue this case, but then again I'm pretty ignorant re. employment law. I'm just looking at this from a data protection aspect.
 
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The computers, telephone system and wall clocks are all within five minutes of each other but only just. That's why they could argue a five minute discrepancy either way i.e. 10 minutes late becomes 5 minutes late and is therefore a none (or less of) issue?

The telephone system, access card, CCTV and computers aren't all synced together.

I guess it's difficult to argue the data is accurate or inaccurate. I do see however it's the employers duty to verify the accuracy of the data, so if they can't, the data could be seen as inaccurate or not accurate enough?

This is a headache! :)
 
Bleek said:
So if we can't prove accurate records were kept for say, the past two months i.e. the system time cannot be verified against an external source (atomic clock, GMT etc), then the evidence is considered inaccurate and admissible?
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Maybe not inadmissible but certainly weakened. You are guaranteed he will bring this up at tribunal. It's up to you to prove your case.

I suppose if you can show that your system does not lose/gain time from now onwards, it would be a start and would add value to your old figures. However, there is no proof that even if the system keeps good time, the old recordings were made when the computer was set to the wrong time.

Equally, once you have now started keeping accuracy records, if he keeps being late then you don;t need the old evidence.

I am starting to guess that you want to either discipline the guy or sack him and it's starting to look like he might get away with his previous poor timekeeping?

If so, it will only be a matter of time before he messes up again.

ANother thing you may want to look into is CCTV specifically mentioned in their contract of employment as being used for timekeeping purposes?

If the CCTV is a recent thing, did you inform the emloyees in writing that it was being installed and what purposes the footage was going to be used for? Did you give the required notice period prior to the CCTV being installed?

If the answer is no to any of the above then you can't legally use the CCTV footage against the employee and all your timekeeping records are useless.

We fell into this trap when we wanted to use CCTV to discipline and employee but since we only installed it for security and health and safety, after we took legal advice, we found we couldn't use the footage. That is now all corrected and we can now.
 
You can argue that the time may be incorrect but, e.g. if the cctv shows 10 minute late arriving then it should also show 10 mins late leaving.

Also, depending on the level of disciplinary going, surely late is late and it doesn't matter how significant the other party may view it if it's not in accordance with their contract?
 
Bleek said:
The telephone system, access card, CCTV and computers aren't all synced together.

I guess it's difficult to argue the data is accurate or inaccurate. I do see however it's the employers duty to verify the accuracy of the data, so if they can't, the data could be seen as inaccurate or not accurate enough?
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Ah, tricky. You need to really only have one main time/clock to work off. If somebody is 5 minutes late on that then they should be clocking out 5 minutes late at the end of the day. This would then account for the clock perhaps being wrong. Equally we check our clock weekly and correct it if needs be.

Also we introduced a policy at our work that you need to be clocked on at least 5 minutes before the start of the work day on the basis that be the time they have said hello to everybody, unpacked their lunchboxes, had a cup a tea, they might actually be ready to start work on time!
 
Pudney@work said:
You can argue that the time may be incorrect but, e.g. if the cctv shows 10 minute late arriving then it should also show 10 mins late leaving.

Also, depending on the level of disciplinary going, surely late is late and it doesn't matter how significant the other party may view it if it's not in accordance with their contract?
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True but if their recording systems are 5 minutes apart that might mean that some of his late arrivals could be shown as not being late if the difference was 5 minutes.

That might mean that the number of certain days when the employee is late is then not enough to discipline him. Our policy is to allow 3 late starts per month. Anymore than that and they are disciplined and goes on their file.

It all depends on the OP's company on how they define late and how many times it takes in a set period to trigger further action.
 
You want to discipline some for being 5 to 10 mins late... Your having a laugh, or you mean you are looking to get rid off for any reason without it costing money just because you don'[t like the guy...
 
I have an employment law question that someone might be able to answer. Does the OP mind if I ask it here rather than creating another similar thread.
 
awaybreaktoday said:
You want to discipline some for being 5 to 10 mins late... Your having a laugh, or you mean you are looking to get rid off for any reason without it costing money just because you don'[t like the guy...
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It's come from high-up but it's looking like constructive dismissal to me, they have hit other targets near perfectly and only failed on this point... rather ridiculous to take them to a formal meeting. :(

To be fair if said employee takes them on constructive dismissal grounds I guess they get what they deserve. I'm middle management, a pawn in this silly little game. It's clear they want rid of this person.
 
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