Gurkha ordered back to UK after beheading dead Taliban fighter

It probably took less time to take his head than it would have taken to pull out a camera and take a photo (if he had a camera that is), and remember that this guy is coming under heavy fire according to the report.

not that i care for the talibans head but lumbering it around with him would surely impede his ability to fight back or support his fellow soldiers, but again i ask who complained about this ?

so it's ok to invade their country and wage a war against them even though they don't want to fight us, drop bombs on them, but decapitating a dead guy is wrong ?
 
... Politicians did not get a victory in WW2 or Falklands, the armies did
I can't see much chance of either Politicians or any army ever being able to claim to have got a victory in Afghanistan - it's just an excuse to pour taxpayers' money into the coffers of the US defence industry :rolleyes:
 
not that i care for the talibans head but lumbering it around with him would surely impede his ability to fight back or support his fellow soldiers, but again i ask who complained about this ?

so it's ok to invade their country and wage a war against them even though they don't want to fight us, drop bombs on them, but decapitating a dead guy is wrong ?
No he's not in a battle you do what needs to be done. He may not have time to unload his kit to find his camera if he had one?
 
Basically as long as the Taliban are considered Combatants (which they are) then we are subject to the Geneva Convention and they should be treated within its bounds, this includes not mutilating their bodies in the event of death.

As it is an internal conflict that isn't the case and only very limited parts of the Geneva conventions apply and only then to Afghan forces.
 
Article 2 does not apply to Iraq or Afghanistan any longer as there is an internationally recognised government in both, so only Article 3 applies now.

The highlighted bits you pasted for Article 3 only apply to live persons afaik and not dead ones.
Equally enemy Taliban do not fall under any of those definitions, they are not civilians, and they are also not members of armed forces due to lack of uniform

As it is an internal conflict that isn't the case and only very limited parts of the Geneva conventions apply and only then to Afghan forces.


It applies because afghanistan is not an international conflict, it is an internal one fought with the arrangement of the lawful Afghani Government and as such Article 2 applies.

The Taliban do indeed fall under the auspices of the GC because the Allied countries decided that the, and I quote "Geneva Conventions and the additional protocols related to POW are refelective of customary international law, and will apply to the conflict with Al Qaeda and the Taliban, even if they do not apply as a matter of treaty law."

Excerpt from the Canadian Department of National Defence military Board inquiry into In-theatre Handling of Detainees:

“Common Article 3, so called because it appears in Geneva Conventions I – IV, provides the minimum standard of care, stating: In the case of an armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions…(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention…shall in all circumstances be treated humanely… The Parties to the conflict should further endeavour to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the provisions of the present Convention. [131]

In support of this position, the CDS on behalf of the Government of Canada, entered into an arrangement with the Government of Afghanistan for the transfer of detainees. [132] This arrangement provides that the participants will treat detainees in accordance with the standards established in the Third Geneva Convention, designed to protect Prisoners of War.”

This was directly related to the handing over of detainees to the Afghan Government.

Article 2 has become relevent since the Afghan Government became a signitory of the GC and as such has become the High Contracting Party and the NATO/ISAF forces are Invited State Forces which makes the Afghan war a non-international conflict between it's Armed Forces supported by the invited forces against dissident armed forces or other recognised armed groups within it's own territory. The problem arises because the Afghani Forces are not doing most of the fighting and thus negates parts of AP2, thus the emphasis now on including Afghan Forces in all major operations to bypass this.

I will agree that there seems to be quite some legal rigmarole going on here to make this stick, but as with most things, if the strongest parties agree then it is ratified and legal.


As for the AP3 only applying to living persons, it does not, because of the first provision:

"Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria."

This was applied to the inhumane mutilation of corpses in conflicts in Bosnia and Africa because of the "any other cause" criteria. So can be applied here.
 
No he's not in a battle you do what needs to be done. He may not have time to unload his kit to find his camera if he had one?
well considering part of the mission was to kill the guy and bring back evidence of his death....i'd say they were ill prepared to not have a camera ready.


not that i was arguing against the decapitation.:p
 
Nice, facing a sentence for carrying out your orders. Really, what a great way to show appreciation to someone who has put their life on the line to fight for your forces/cause.
 
well considering part of the mission was to kill the guy and bring back evidence of his death....i'd say they were ill prepared to not have a camera ready.


not that i was arguing against the decapitation.:p

the mission was to bring the corpse back, so it may be they needed to confirm it by scars/surgery/medical conditions like Hussein's sons rather than just a picture.
 
the mission was to bring the corpse back, so it may be they needed to confirm it by scars/surgery/medical conditions like Hussein's sons rather than just a picture.


His unit had been told that they were seeking a ‘high value target,’ a Taliban commander, and that they must prove they had killed the right man.

thats what dailymail wrote and what my post was based on but how accurate that is, is anyones guess.
 
You know who else tried to justify things on the basis that the offended parties were not enemy combatants and were thus outside the remit of the GC? The Americans, justifying torture and the like at Guantanamo Bay and Abu Grahib. Brilliant.
 
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One question I would ask is whether the soldiers had been instructed not to behead their enemies. If they hadn't, then it is not his fault, but the fault of those in command. Soldiers can't be expected to know every religious rule of every enemy force, after all.
 
Somewhat unorthodox to say the least and as far as as for proving commander was dead they only seem to have done half the job :p
 
personally dont see the problem, bosses demand proof the man is dead, i'm sure dumping his head on their desk would prove this about time these barbarians got a taste of their own medicine so well done that man

Because it totally goes against are missions core values of winning over the civilians hearts and minds.
 
One question I would ask is whether the soldiers had been instructed not to behead their enemies. If they hadn't, then it is not his fault, but the fault of those in command. Soldiers can't be expected to know every religious rule of every enemy force, after all.

Religious when it suits them. Few months ago it was reported the taliban beheaded a girl :(
 
The point being made is that it was unnecessary to behead the guy, regardless of who it was/is.

To ID that they had the right guy would require nothing more than a photo, for Christ's sake. Something that every squad are equipped with for this very purpose.
 
It always does, or has.

Rules of engagement (or whatever they're called) are also debilitating. E.g. IRA sniper just shoots your commander, but then drops his rifle and his kid picks it up, and together they walk off. You can't do anything.

Because in the troubles the British troops really were so honourable and wouldn't dream of shooting them.

:rolleyes:


Guess you haven't heard the old trick of shouting surrender 3 times......whilst firing your machine gun.

Have a read up on the shoot to kill policy that was evident in Northern Ireland.....
 
To ID that they had the right guy would require nothing more than a photo, for Christ's sake. Something that every squad are equipped with for this very purpose.

That's not always the case, but then you take the entire body.

For one of our soldiers to behead a body is disgraceful and goes against core targets of the mission.
 
Similar to shotguns, I was wondering about the use of Barret .50 sniper rifles. Before the war in Iraq I read in a few places that they were strictly anti-material rifles under the Geneva Convention. Now they are openly used against human targets. What changed?

What changed is that the general rule is you do not engage the human target, you target his webbing ;)

Achieves the same end, but circumvents the GC quite nicely.
 
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