NHS Direct to be closed

[Hatter The Mad]

I think being able to access a non emergency out of hours service can be invaluable, especially for smaller issues that appear over weekends or holidays. I'm fairly sure that my GP refers all patients to NHS 24 out of hours rather than providing a non emergency service.

And you'll still be able to. The NHS Direct isn't being 'scrapped' per se - its services will be subsumed by NHS 111. This isn't set in stone though, and how many of its services that will be transferred hasn't been talked about yet.

However, the Guardian and BBC seem to be reporting that "NHS Direct will be scrapped" and "replaced with NHS 111". In its current capacity, NHS 111 is just an information service. However, this does not mean to say its service wont change when NHS Direct goes.

The British Medical Association have been calling for NHS Direct to go for a long while, because

1) Good diagnosis cannot happen over the phone. If it is urgent, go to A+E. If it is not, go to the doctors the next day
2) It relies on people articulating a self-diagnosis, which is bad at best of times
3) It ties up trained medical staff
4) Trained medical staff spend most of their time dispensing simple 'bumpf' that is available on the Web
5) It is a service of convenience, which the NHS can't afford to pay for

 

[Fr0dders]

And you'll still be able to. The NHS Direct isn't being 'scrapped' per se - its services will be subsumed by NHS 111. This isn't set in stone though, and how many of its services that will be transferred hasn't been talked about yet.

However, the Guardian and BBC seem to be reporting that "NHS Direct will be scrapped" and "replaced with NHS 111". In its current capacity, NHS 111 is just an information service. However, this does not mean to say its service wont change when NHS Direct goes.

The British Medical Association have been calling for NHS Direct to go for a long while, because

1) Good diagnosis cannot happen over the phone. If it is urgent, go to A+E. If it is not, go to the doctors the next day
2) It relies on people articulating a self-diagnosis, which is bad at best of times
3) It ties up trained medical staff
4) Trained medical staff spend most of their time dispensing simple 'bumpf' that is available on the Web
5) It is a service of convenience, which the NHS can't afford to pay for

hurrah ! well said.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Signed.

I called NHS Direct when I had a swollen ankle after playing badminton and was worrying that maybe I'd done some serious damage as it was so painful to walk on. NHS Direct said they would have a nurse call me back in an hour, which she did - asked me a few questions and said basically to take pain killers, raise the foot and put cold compresses on it - if the swelling doesn't go down in a couple of days go to A&E. Sure enough it sorted itself out after a day. If I hadn't been able to talk to a qualified nurse I think I'd have probably called a cab to take me to A&E which would have wasted my time and NHS money.

It's quite sad really, all the Conservatives have to offer is taking the country back to the mid 1990s, when our public services were in a right old state. There's a real poverty of ambition about some ministers, Andrew Lansley is definitely one.

Well done, lets massively overspend money we don't have on services that would be lovely to have in a perfect world where we don't actually use money, or have greed, but just want to better mankind.

In the real world, if you overspend by several dozen billion a year, it adds up, we can all have free hip replacements, boob jobs, advice phone lines, sex changes, this that and the other for 5 years, before the country is bankrupt, or we can have emergency healthcare for all, plus whatever else we can afford, FOREVER.

Can you see the difference between the two? 5 years of the bestest healthcare ever(that constantly, constantly makes mistakes, read any thread talking about massive huge mistakes that happen to the NHS, ask around your friends, almost everyone knows dozens of people that have had big problems and misdiagnosed things which turned out to be serious) that will quite literally bankrupt the country is NOT good healthcare.

Lasting healthcare the country can afford is the ONLY OPTION POSSIBLE.

Labour simply ignore that, and spend, and spend, and spend, and spend, sure the healthcare is treating more people for more things than ever, but in 5 years when the national debt increased by 50%, and every tax bracket had to go up by 10% to try and stop the country going bankrupt, slow the debt increase and persuade countries we can in some way survive so they keep buying our debt.

The alternative is spend money we don't have till the guys with the UK's credit cards just say, NO. We make smeg all the world can't live without, and the few things we make, we make less of by the year. The country is in incredibly bad trouble and honestly, only really ignorant people believe cutting spending is a bad thing.

Do you honestly think, forever, till we have the "star trek" moment and the world stops caring about money, that other countries will simply lend us trillions upon trillions forever? I have no idea what planet you're living on, if we spend as we have been, the country loses ALL healthcare.

Its also INCREDIBLY obvious when a joint is broken, dislocated or sprained, well, broken or dislocated badly enough to require emergency treatment.

if you can walk on it AT ALL then 99999999999999/100000000000000 times its a sprain, these things used to be common sense, why anyone would need to phone someone to ask that I don't know.

But then again, no one has any common sense anymore.

 

[Dolph]

NHS direct is horrendously expensive for what is essentially a knowledge-base system driven first line support team, due to the decision to only employ people who are massively overqualified for the role.

The whole point of using a knowledgebase system is that it eliminates the need for huge amounts of specialised training by using a knowledge database with questions and routes written by those with specialist knowledge, to allow those without to diagnose problems and faults and make recommendations on the appropriate course of action or escalate the issue to the next level if necessary. Labour, by only employing fully trained and qualified nurses, completely missed the point.

I fully support attempts to correct this horrendous waste of resources.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

It's quite sad really, all the Conservatives have to offer is taking the country back to the mid 1990s, when our public services were in a right old state.

Actually, the sad and quite sick thing here is that people like you let tribal politics get in the way of making real progress and positive reforms.

You are condemning the government for listening to the advice of professionals - the BMA, which is the independent trade union of doctors who work in, represent and in parts run the NHS.

Think about that for a second. Who are we going to listen to? The sole opinion of Andrew Lansley, with little experience? The opinions of Labour, with little NHS experience (and in fact a negative track record when it comes to quangocracies, waste and badly spent resources)? Or the opinions of fully qualified professionals with centuries of experience between them? Tough one.

But no, just because it is (A) The Tories and (B) Something going (when it isn't really, if you bother to read around Guardian churnalism), then it MUST be bad and it MUST be the ghost of Thatcher at play.

Grow up, and then hopefully the politics of this country will too.

 

[Wicksta]

I've used NHS Direct a few times in the past 5 years, however each time I've been put through to a 'real' doctor and in one case the emergency services because the conditions were genuine (other half having and asthma attack and some small issues with our baby). I don't know whether I got one of the 40% of the nurses, everyone was helpful but in the end once they had the required information we were passed on to someone else.

 

[Wicksta]

Politically its a brave move as it will only take 1 **** up from non-medically trained Joe Callworker and the media will have a field day querying why the service was changed.

At least 60% of the NHS Direct staff are 'Joe Callworker'.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

At least 60% of the NHS Direct staff are 'Joe Callworker'.

Source?

According to this - http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=4126237 - only 40% are "Joe Callworker".

 

[Hatter The Mad]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/3253245/Every-call-to-NHS-Direct-costs-25.html

In 2008, "Every call to NHS Direct cost £25", and that number was on an upward trajectory.

The cost of the service is calculated by dividing its total overheads, including staff and operating costs, by the number of calls that it answers.

According to the British Medical Association it costs the NHS between £20 and £25 every time a patient sees their GP.

Norman Lamb, NHS health spokesman, said: " ``It's time for a proper evaluation of NHS Direct.

''With all the problems there have been around out-of-hours care we might have expected to see an increase in the numbers using NHS Direct. But instead more people are going straight to A&E.

''Ministers must look seriously at how they can justify this massive cost to the NHS given the enormous pressures on health spending.

''The Government must ensure that all services on the NHS offer value for money.''

Dr Richard Vautrey, deputy chairman of the British Medical Association's GP committee said: ``With calls costing £25 per patient NHS Direct does not appear to offer value for money. Whilst the service it offers has improved in the last year there is still too little evidence that it relieves pressure on GP or hospital services. A better approach would be to invest more in local services that directly benefit patients.''

Last week it was revealed that the service had translated its services into 160 languages, including many spoken by almost no-one in Britain.

 

[scorza]

this is one of the reasons NHS direct serves little purpose

They've told you to do what you would have done had NHS direct not existed.

Put a bag of frozen peas on it, take some painkillers and gone to A&E if it hadnt got better.

Thanks for the medical advice, although I'm going to ignore it unless it comes from a qualified medical professional rather than a slovenly Yorkshireman.

You say it was a help, but what did people do with swollen ankles before NHS direct ? Die ?

No they did what I would have done if I couldn't have obtained proper medical advice from a trained professional, they would have gone to A&E meaning longer waits for those who really need medical attention.

 

[Wicksta]

Source?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11120853

NHS Direct currently employs more than 3,000 staff, 40% of whom are trained nurses. It is understood the ratio on the 1-1-1 helpline is "slightly less" in the pilot, but no figures are yet available for what will happen when the scheme is rolled out nationally.

Let's wait and see what the actual differences are before going mad about it eh?

 

[Von Smallhausen]

Right, onto the A&E/999 thing. If the British public weren't such idle, stupid, hypochondriac lying idiots, those two would hardly ever be used. But, if Joe 'tard is saying his leg is hanging off, then we obviously can't ignore him. If lying Sally Bag, who makes 30 calls a night is drunk and pretending to be unconscious, we can't tell her tanked-up mate to go away and leave us alone. Conversely if Barry Braindead calls us instead of dialling 999 for his very obvious heart attack, he gets patched through. If Mrs Shouldbe-Sterilised rings because her baby is blue, not moving, and "Should I give him some calpol" then what are we supposed to do? Not bother calling for an ambulance?"

I will change the above slightly to a portion of the British public but aside from that, thank you for a very informed, funny but sadly true post.

There are sections of the public that should be barred from using NHS Direct or from calling 999 or at the very least should be slammed with a bill for wasting their time.

 

[JamesU2005]

All but Conserative supporters seem to agree with this cut.

Having used the service in the past, very late at night with an minor emergency I'd say it was extremely helpful.

 

[Wicksta]

All but Conserative supporters seem to agree with this cut.

Having used the service in the past, very late at night with an minor emergency I'd say it was extremely helpful.

Is the number 111 too difficult for you to remember or something?

 

[JamesU2005]

Is the number 111 too difficult for you to remember or something?

The lack of truly qualified individuals does.

 

[dante6491]

The lack of truly qualified individuals does.

Make it hard to remember?

 

[JamesU2005]

Make it hard to remember?

 

[Hatter The Mad]

The lack of truly qualified individuals does.

This is speculation - no one yet knows how many of NHS Direct's services will be subsumed by NHS 111.

 

[dante6491]

Is the number 111 too difficult for you to remember or something?

The lack of truly qualified individuals does.

Make it hard to remember?

I was referring to the fact your post made no sense in relation to the one it followed. Unless you mean the lack of qualified individuals making 111 hard to remember... In that case aren't you tarring yourself there? Even a simpleton could remember 111.

 

[JamesU2005]

I was referring to the fact your post made no sense in relation to the one it followed. Unless you mean the lack of qualified individuals making 111 hard to remember... In that case aren't you tarring yourself there? Even a simpleton could remember 111.

Errrrr "lack of qualified individuals" running the phone line.

I just stated what worried me, in response to your post.

Surely that was obvious. Hatter The Mad didn't seem to have any issue understanding my point.

Very odd, can't see how my post wasn't clear.