What do you think of this budget basket?

ellingham

ellingham

ellingham

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Joined
29 Jun 2010
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360
Just need to add a mobo, any ideas? Can any one spec me something better?
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ellingham said:
Any one else care to have a look?
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Hello ellingham,

couple of points . . . firstly have you considered getting a uATX/IGP enabled board instead of a older ATX? . . . I say this because these days (2010) most people don't really need anything bigger "unless" running a multiple GPU set-up or have a stack of legacy PCI cards they wanna use? . . . I switched all my *non* multiple GPU builds to uATX over a year ago and its working out well! :)

The advantage of going with a uATX board is you get a nice modern IGP thrown in which proves quite handy when it comes to selling of your older GPU before buying a new GPU, also as a backup if your main GPU develops a fault . . . if you do not need the large ATX board then it seems you are not giving anything up by going with uATX and you gain the IGP and a board that fits into more cases easier . . .

The memory you selected is nice but just in case you didn't know DDR3 is pretty cool running and doesn't really require these heatsink style designs unless you are overVolting and overclocking them . . under standard operation in a case with some airflow the standard jacket memory run just fine, I think mostly its a marketing thing where people go "nice heatsinks" etc ;) . . . now some people may say "well its the same price so why not?" . . . . the only reason I would avoid the memory with the heatsink design is that they sometimes clash with a 3rd party CPU "tower" HSF . . . if you are only using the stock cooler then this is a moot point and the "chunky" memory works fine but if in the future you want to add a big mama HSF then you may have to use the memory slots furthest away from the CPU socket . . .

SATA 6Gb/s?

Next up is your choice of GPU, the Radeon HD 4870 512MB is a nice card but its getting a bit long in the tooth now, having 512MB of graphics memory is fine for lower res gaming but starts to lag a little with modern games at high res like 1920x1080 etc . . . what res is your display? . . . the other thing is that card runs quite hot and eats more power than a newer card . . it also lacks the newer DX 11.0 technology which "may" be something you regret . . .

If you are unsure what graphics card you need and you don't need the full sized ATX board then a possible route forward would be to buy a uATX board and use the IGP for the moment and either hunt down a used HD 5770 or perhaps save a bit more money up for a 1GB/DX11 GPU . . . I guess this depends on what games you play, what O/S you use and your gaming screen res?

Lastly, there is nothing wrong at all with that OCZ PSU, modular is the way forward and 500 watts is "more" than enough power for that build . . . even if you went with the older power hungry HD 4870 GPU your max power-pull would be about 350 watts . . . it's all well and good some people saying a PSU with more power is better but if your unlikely to use it why bother? . . . a PSU needs to run at approx 75% capacity to be efficient and as far as I know it actually works against you to have a too powerful PSU running at minimum load i.e. it will draw more power from the wall (££) vs a more efficient running PSU . .

Taking all these points to a logical conclusion and assuming you play modern games at higher res under Windows 7 and intend to keep this system for a few years I would suggest you save up for a modern GPU and build the following system for the moment . . .

ellingham01.gif


Take you time "considering" what I have said and I'm happy to politely discuss any of these points! :cool:
 
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Big.Wayne said:
Hello ellingham,

couple of points . . . firstly have you considered getting a uATX/IGP enabled board instead of a older ATX? . . . I say this because these days (2010) most people don't really need anything bigger "unless" running a multiple GPU set-up or have a stack of legacy PCI cards they wanna use? . . . I switched all my *non* multiple GPU builds to uATX over a year ago and its working out well! :)

Firstly i have never built a pc and am very new to this but is the jist of what your saying, get the uTAX board and it will be easier to fit into my case, it won't affect me as i am not using it to run mutiple GPU's and so on...

The memory you selected is nice but just in case you didn't know DDR3 is pretty cool running and doesn't really require these heatsink style designs unless you are overVolting and overclocking them . . under standard operation in a case with some airflow the standard jacket memory run just fine, I think mostly its a marketing thing where people go "nice heatsinks" etc ;) . . . now some people may say "well its the same price so why not?" . . . . the only reason I would avoid the memory with the heatsink design is that they sometimes clash with a 3rd party CPU "tower" HSF . . . if you are only using the stock cooler then this is a moot point and the "chunky" memory works fine but if in the future you want to add a big mama HSF then you may have to use the memory slots furthest away from the CPU socket . . .

I see what you're saying but i picked that ram siply because it was on offer :o

SATA 6Gb/s? i do not understand what this means:confused:

Next up is your choice of GPU, the Radeon HD 4870 512MB is a nice card but its getting a bit long in the tooth now, having 512MB of graphics memory is fine for lower res gaming but starts to lag a little with modern games at high res like 1920x1080 etc . . . what res is your display? . . . the other thing is that card runs quite hot and eats more power than a newer card . . it also lacks the newer DX 11.0 technology which "may" be something you regret . . .

If you are unsure what graphics card you need and you don't need the full sized ATX board then a possible route forward would be to buy a uATX board and use the IGP for the moment and either hunt down a used HD 5770 or perhaps save a bit more money up for a 1GB/DX11 GPU . . . I guess this depends on what games you play, what O/S you use and your gaming screen res?

I have not chose a screen yet, but i see what you mean. Make a build now and then wait untill i have the cash for a top of the line GPU.

Lastly, there is nothing wrong at all with that OCZ PSU, modular is the way forward and 500 watts is "more" than enough power for that build . . . even if you went with the older power hungry HD 4870 GPU your max power-pull would be about 350 watts . . . it's all well and good some people saying a PSU with more power is better but if your unlikely to use it why bother? . . . a PSU needs to run at approx 75% capacity to be efficient and as far as I know it actually works against you to have a too powerful PSU running at minimum load i.e. it will draw more power from the wall (££) vs a more efficient running PSU . .

Taking all these points to a logical conclusion and assuming you play modern games at higher res under Windows 7 and intend to keep this system for a few years I would suggest you save up for a modern GPU and build the following system for the moment . . .

ellingham01.gif


Take you time "considering" what I have said and I'm happy to politely discuss any of these points! :cool:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the mightily detailed response!:D
 
Big.Wayne said:
Next up is your choice of GPU, the Radeon HD 4870 512MB is a nice card but its getting a bit long in the tooth now, having 512MB of graphics memory is fine for lower res gaming but starts to lag a little with modern games at high res like 1920x1080 etc . . . what res is your display? . . . the other thing is that card runs quite hot and eats more power than a newer card . . it also lacks the newer DX 11.0 technology which "may" be something you regret . . .
Click to expand...

He chose the 1gb version of the 4870. This card is faster than the 5770 (or as fast) for a much cheaper price. IMO, that card is excellent value at the moment. DX11 is a moot point since the 5770 isn't fast enough to make use of DX11 (especially since only a few games use it at the moment).

Big.Wayne said:
a PSU needs to run at approx 75% capacity to be efficient and as far as I know it actually works against you to have a too powerful PSU running at minimum load i.e. it will draw more power from the wall (££) vs a more efficient running PSU . .
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That's not entirely true.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80_PLUS#Efficiency_level_certifications

80 Plus certified PSU's are efficient at 20%, 80% and 100%.
Thus, a higher power PSU (600w+) is still very efficient at idle (20%) and load (80%-100%).

More conclusively, look at the efficiency graphs from the 80plus website.

e.g. the ocz stealthxtreme2 600w

http://www.80plus.org/manu/psu/psu_reports/OCZ TECHNOLOGY_OCZ600SXS2_ECOS 447.1_600W_Report.pdf

Notice how the efficiency line never drops below 80% at varying loads.

Full list: http://www.80plus.org/manu/psu/psu_join.aspx
 
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Hey ellingham :)

ellingham said:
Firstly i have never built a pc and am very new to this
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That's fine, we are all nOOblings here! :p . . . take your time and try to under the "reasons" for things . . . don't just accept something because 1-1000 people say so . . .

ellingham said:
is the jist of what your saying, get the uTAX board and it will be easier to fit into my case, it won't affect me as i am not using it to run mutiple GPU's and so on...
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I was asking you if you had considered it . . . from what you have stated he answer is no! . . . thats good!

uATX is becoming quite a common size now, ATX is becoming less common now . . . there is nothing wrong with either "Form-Factors" as they both have their advantages/disadvantages . . . from where I'm looking the uATX is a more "desirable" option for most people that do not use Crossfire/SLI and want a better choice of cases as well as having a basic graphics card thrown in (IGP which I'm using now!)

If anybody else knows about a possible "advantage" to using a standard ATX board that I haven't mentioned then please let me know . . . all I can think of apart from MultipleGPU set-ups is the potential for installing a lot of add-in cards . . it seems these days almost every single tecnology would could need is intergrated right in the motherboard itself . .it's all very impressive stuff! ;)

ellingham said:
see what you're saying but i picked that ram siply because it was on offer
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No probs, you picked good ram and the proviso about it clashing with a 3rd party Tower heatsink may not be relevant to you . . . it is the same as the memory I included in the spec above although its out-of-stock . . .

ellingham said:
SATA 6Gb/s? i do not understand what this means
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It's SATA 3.0, the latest hard-disk technology . . . it's not a huge deal but it just helps the hard-disk get data to and from the system a "bit" faster albeit at a small price premium . . . it's not a night and day difference but its something to consider none the less . . . every little helps!

ellingham said:
I have not chose a screen yet
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Cool . . . is this for a standard computer scenario or? . . . lounge PC? . . . have you got one of those 40" LCD jobbies in your lounge etc? . . . basically describe the setting the PC will be installed in (bedroom, office etc) . . .

ellingham said:
Make a build now and then wait untill i have the cash for a top of the line GPU.
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Kinda, if using the uATX board you ready to go . . . get the PC built and get a feel for it . . . then all you need to do is choose a modern 1GB DX.11 GPU and your gaming fun begins . . . doesn't have to be a "top of the line GPU" just the right GPU for your personal needs . . . if you only play older games or no games at all you may just be happy with the IGP . . .

P.S: please can you avoid quoting my whole post like you did above, also the red font doesn't show up propely on my display (hard to read), do what you want in this spec thread but if you do that in the main forums people may grumble! (I will! :p)
 
Big.Wayne said:
P.S: please can you avoid quoting my whole post like you did above, also the red font doesn't show up propely on my display (hard to read), do what you want in this spec thread but if you do that in the main forums people may grumble! (I will! :p)
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I realised what i did after i done it but was to lazy to go back and edit :o

To be honest i don't need to game straight away as i'm not even a pc gamer but i do want to branch out to the pc and see what it has to offer. The main thing is to get the pc up and running as i'm getting tired of using a laptop! i will be getting a monitor (hopefully a nice decent sized one) but just haven't put too much thought into it as i wanted to get the pc together first and then have a look to see what's about. The pc will be in the lounge for now but seperate from the t.v but in the future it will be moving to my room probably.
 
rickh said:
He chose the 1gb version of the 4870
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Thanks rickh! :)

I'll get my eyeballs back in shall I! :p

rickh said:
that card is excellent value at the moment
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No one has said otherwise? . . . however we are discussing options if thats ok? . . . or are you suggesting thats the only card he can choose? ;)

Can't really fault it myself apart from its hot running and eats more power ££ than a Modern (Evergreen) GPU . . . the thing that "bugs" me the most about the HD 4870 is it's "idle" power consumption (££), sitting there watching a DVD or surfing the web it just consumes wayys to much power . . . if the PC is only turned on and off for gaming then this is indeed not relevant but if its gonna be switched on 8+ hours a day most of the week then the energy bills ££ will add up . . . you may not care about this but being an eco-nut I feel obliged to make the facts known . . . cool?

Lets find out a bit more about ellingham's needs and how the PC will be used shall we? :)

rickh said:
DX11 is a moot point
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Maybe for you personally but depending on how long ellingham will own the card it "may" be handy . . . If buying a new GPU now and running Windows 7 I think DX11 is not something that can be disregarded . . . it would be wrong of anyone to condem something without a thorough investigation no?

Have you "thoroughly" investigated DX11 before condemning it rickh?

rickh said:
80 Plus certified PSU's are efficient at 20%, 80% and 100%
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If thats true then thats good news, last time I checked it seemed otherwise so thanks for the heads up . . . I will set some time aside later to check through that link you kindly provided, thanks! :)

So if a 600 watt PSU pulling 350 watts is as efficient as a 500 watts PSU pulling 350 watts that kinda counters the point I had about buying too higher wattage being a negative . . . so that just leaves the question of Modular vs Spaghetti and also the question of this BeQuite PSU being "higher quality"

Thoughts?
 
don't swap the seagate drive for that much more expensive western digital black drive.

just because it has a sata3.0 interface, a mechanical disk device such as this can't even satuate the older sata 3gbs interface.

only devices such as a SSD are capable of moving enough data to need a sata6gbs connection.

this harddrive review roundup conclusion even recommends the seagate as their drive of choice,

www.xbitlabs.com/articles/storage/display/500gb-hdd-roundup.html
 
ellingham said:
To be honest i don't need to game straight away as i'm not even a pc gamer
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Heh, there is no such thing as a "PC Gamer" . . . but there is such a thing as somebody who likes to play games a lot using a PC ;)

If your not playing games right now then a uATX mobo with a modern IGP is gonna work well for you . . . in the future when you feel the need for some "fraggin" it will be very easy for you to pick-up a nice modern GPU and pop it into your computer!

ellingham said:
i do want to branch out to the pc and see what it has to offer
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That makes sense . . . the PC will offer you lots!

ellingham said:
The main thing is to get the pc up and running as i'm getting tired of using a laptop!
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Cool . . .

ellingham said:
i will be getting a monitor (hopefully a nice decent sized one)
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24" approx works well as a dedicated monitor . . . I've had one of the past several years . . . paid £600 back in the day . . . nice to see them selling now for £150 odd! :eek:

ellingham said:
The pc will be in the lounge for now but seperate from the t.v but in the future it will be moving to my room probably.
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Hmm, you know a lot of people are connecting their computers directly to the TV's now via HDMI . . . does your TV have HDMI?
 
Big.Wayne said:
are you suggesting thats the only card he can choose? ;)

Can't really fault it myself apart from its hot running and eats more power ££ than a Modern (Evergreen) GPU . . . the thing that "bugs" me the most about the HD 4870 is it's "idle" power consumption (££), sitting there watching a DVD or surfing the web it just consumes wayys to much power . . . if the PC is only turned on and off for gaming then this is indeed not relevant but if its gonna be switched on 8+ hours a day most of the week then the energy bills ££ will add up . . . you may not care about this but being an eco-nut I feel obliged to make the facts known . . . cool?
Click to expand...

Lets do some maths to work out how much it will cost in energy bills.
Will be interesting!

Code: 
4870 uses 50w more than 5770 in idle & 100w more at load
British Gas (Electric): 9.842 pence per kWh (rate 2)


1 years usage in hours = 8 hours x 29 days x 12 months = 2784 hours per year

1 years usage in kWh = Kilowatts x hours = 0.05 x 2784 = 139 kWh per year

1 years total cost = kWh x cost per kWh = 139 * 9.842 = 1368p = £13.68

is £13.68 worth complaining about when the card is about £40 cheaper?
That's the decision the OP has to make depending on how many years he intends to run the card!
It would make sense to opt for the 5770 if used 8 hours a day for 3 years if the OP pays for his energy.
 
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