Calling all legal eagles! (and police)
- Thread starter Greebo
- Start date
Small delivery driver who gets paid a pittance and not worth it versus 40 burly men who work on site? If I was the driver i'd leave and just ring my boss and tell him what we had done.
Where it goes from there is another story though.
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Have they gone into liquidation iirc everything then becomes the property of the liquidators who will share it out, your probably way down the list after HMRC and the banks so you'll get x in the pound back. Your lucky their returning your unsold good
Pretty sure it will be theft. In South African (which is based on UK precedents) you could not even sieze the van without court order even if they owed you money on the van.
And as they are going into liquidation they should not be able to sell the van off for debts. The administrators will asses the debts, sell off assets and pay creditors.
And as they are going into liquidation they should not be able to sell the van off for debts. The administrators will asses the debts, sell off assets and pay creditors.
Something about "no permanent intent to deprive" springs to mind as a defence.
Soldato
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So are they returning all the goods they owe you for, or do they owe you more money than just these goods?
Man of Honour
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Theft requires 5 points to prove for the offence to be complete:
- Dishonesty
- Appropriation
- Property
- Belonging to another
- Intent to permanently deprive
I'm pretty sure you cant do that.
Just recently heard of a similar situation where they went into the non-payers workshop and took bikes and tools to offset the debt owed.
They were done and had to return all the "stolen" goods.
Just recently heard of a similar situation where they went into the non-payers workshop and took bikes and tools to offset the debt owed.
They were done and had to return all the "stolen" goods.
They will still owe more money even with the full amount knocked off from the return of the goods tomorrow.
so:
1. no
2. yes
3. yes
4. yes
5. no
I'm guessing you need all 5 to be yes for it to be theft or those 3 out of 5 count?
Man of Honour
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If any one of those are not present, it's not theft. Just be aware that you might have to argue your case to a judge.
But is that the same? They went to their place and took goods and obviously intended to use/sell them to pay off the debt. All we are doing is locking up their vehicle so they can't move it.
Basically I would say you have to be a baliff with the courts authority behind you before you can sieze goods
edit : ahh ok, helps if i read the OP fully
Just holding the van trying to force them to pay....unlikely to work in any case and the police would take a dim view of it
edit : ahh ok, helps if i read the OP fully
Just holding the van trying to force them to pay....unlikely to work in any case and the police would take a dim view of it
To be fair, once the liquidator gets involved he will have every legal right to the asset back to sell to get what he can for the creditors so we would have to return it.
Our hope is that want/need this van and intend to use it in the new business so it's worth something to them to get it back.
you may be denying then any chance of avoiding liquidation so that may make things worse
If you want to "twist his arm" then it sounds like he is trading as insolvent and if this information got to companies hosue he could be disqualified from being a company director in future
If they are insolvent (which if they can't pay their debts, then they definitely are) then all creditors have to be treated equally. You have no more right to that van than anyone else they owe money to - and even if they agreed to let you have it in payment, the court can then order you to give it back.
See here under 'Preferences'.
See here under 'Preferences'.
It sounds like a brilliant idea, but it will be fraught with problems.
Depends on amount of debt to your business vs total risk of prosecution for theft/withholding assets not belonging etc
I'd ring up a law person and get advice ASAP, then do it, and make sure the Old Bill are there when it occurs.
Depends on amount of debt to your business vs total risk of prosecution for theft/withholding assets not belonging etc
I'd ring up a law person and get advice ASAP, then do it, and make sure the Old Bill are there when it occurs.