Koran burning in reaction to 9/11

[Yas786]

Its just the impression I get from you.

You aren't an extremist, by any means, but many of the points you make are things you believe obviously very strongly in, other people will not understand them.

Using such points in arguments rarely works well.

Well what he believes in is what i believe in without a doubt but unlike Vita im not here to educate anyone...i did it in the past with these sort of topics but learnt my lesson very quickly so have stopped doing so as i dont fancy being mocked for my religious views as it is.

Of course if your not muslim then its pretty obvious that you wont believe in what islam says or find it difficult to comprehend etc....much like any other major world religion.

 

[Castiel]

No, very simply - Science does not support the idea of God. Science does not hold the view that anything can be caused by a supernatural deity. You completely insult science by comparing it to God.

Science cannot define God, so it currently cannot prove or disprove Gods existence. This is an agnostic viewpoint.

Atheists categorcally dismiss the notion of God and as such this is a faith based position as you can not prove this either way.

The logical debate DOES point to there being no God, but you wouldnt listen to, nor bother to believe any reasons on this.

This is an agnostic position, not an atheist one. It may point to their being no God, but it cannot prove it to be so, neither can it offer evidence to support that supposition.

Provide supporting peer reviewed research to support your claim "There is no God" or quit rambling on.

Anyway I knackered, so Goodnight all.

 

[cheets64]

Meh, crusades etc. we have been at war for as long someone made up these relgions, did you see neanderthals at war with each other over relgion?

Islamic muzzies have a lot to answer for from what they did on 9/11 and they have got it in the form of Iraq/Afghan

 

[batsy]

Have just read this thread and it hurts my head. As an unbeliever/infidel

 

[Vonhelmet]

Yea, this exactly, wonder why I dodnt think of wording it that way instead of the lame 'do unto others .....' thing

Well, I must admit that I was curious as to why you took a statement of religious origin (Jesus says hi) and attempted to use it as a justification for unsavoury behaviour towards religious people.

No, very simply - Science does not support the idea of God. Science does not hold the view that anything can be caused by a supernatural deity. You completely insult science by comparing it to God.

True science is silent on the subject of God, because there is no testable hypothesis.

The logical debate DOES point to there being no God, but you wouldnt listen to, nor bother to believe any reasons on this.

OK then. Explain in logical terms how you can point to there being no God. Please state all axioms employed up front. Also , you'll have to go slowly on this, as I'm not too bright, so please make sure you spell out each logical step exactly. I want to be sure that I understand this.

 

[Rainmaker]

Vita, you either need to be much more careful with your phrasing in order to not say something you don't mean, or else you hold some worrying views.

Your response to someone's comments about Muslims (SOME Muslims) calling for the beheading of unbelievers was "well they must have done something to upset the Muslims first". I don't know about you, but in my world we don't call for people to be beheaded for ANY reason.

You can insult me, my religion, burn books and draw cartoons all you like - I'd still never call for you to be beheaded. I like to think I'm morally and spiritually more evolved than that, and I operate on a "love thy neighbour as thyself" and a "turn the other cheek" ethos (no, I'm not Christian but the point stands). I'd never lower myself, let alone to such savagery - whether in thought or deed - even under such relatively mild provocation. In fact I'd simply feel sorry for my wannabe protagonist.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and all that. I say this simply because even to myself, who has tried hard to see both sides and remain impartial, some of your statements do sound rather... iffy.

 

[Yas786]

Do I really need to pull up some more memorable evidence of how terrible a religion Islam is? No, not really, I'd hate to make you and your hyena gang mates look like even bigger clowns.

Do you really think that I am bothered about what you think of me? Everything in yours and other Muslim or Islam appologist's defence resorts to mudslinging and petty name calling. I've already taken and dealt with far worse than what your weak mind can possibly throw at me, so please feel free to try whatever you want.

A really mature and mentally sane bunch of people you are. Not.

And what bhavv??/...your mature and mentally sane are you?? lol.

Hey i dont care what evidence you pull up, you rely on youtube and jihadwatch to back up your insane ramblings but feel free to but you will get nothing but laughter from me.

And yes thanks for pointing out the blatant obvious point that there are bad parts to islam much like there are for other religions....but you seem to forget that conveniently because it will only go and destroy your arguements about how evil islam is.

Its funny how you say on one hand that you have no issues with muslims but yet you have a problem with their beliefs and feel that their religion is evil...so logically by your thinking ie sane and rational...that would make all muslims just as evil right?? as they believe in what islam says.

 

[KNiVES]

The truth is, we cannot prove there is a God, except for the mere fact that we exist. This is the core of my deist faith - who lit the spark?

 

[Vita]

You might say I'm agnostic in some aspects but I do follow religion since my background is Islamic but while I do follow it I constantly question it, in fact religion interests me as a whole which is why I try to find out more about it from people who have different faiths but the difference is I never mix my views of religion with things like politics and science & nature. These are all individual things in my view, not just in the views of what a scientist might say, for example, but physically and logically these are completely different things that should not be combined like they are in today's world.

I do not believe for one second that any God causes a natural disaster resulting in the death and/or suffering of millions/thousands. I do however believe that a natural disaster occurs because that is the natural way of the planet we evolved on and we know this because historical evidence tells us this and not religion.

My respect and following of religion and its logical traditions will remain strong as always but my belief in it does not because religion HAS been changed by man to suit his views and ideals many times over the past few thousand years and I cannot trust such words skewed by man to guide me through life - I could do, I could become ignorant to all the nasty stuff going on and just life out my life all happy and in faith but there's too much at stake around us in the world to live like that today.

I don't know if any of that is going to make any logical sense to you or anyone else but to me that's how the world is today and to emphasise a point I hinted at earlier, if a god from any religion created his children so beautiful and so full of life then why have those very beautiful children been killed in such an ugly manner? I ask this question to people and I get various responses but many say that those children of god will instantly go to heaven and live an afterlife of happiness - If that's the case then many also say how you die is how you appear when you die in the afterlife, will those children appear all broken, disfigured and with limbs missing then? There is no clarification on this that I have seen or heard.

Sorry but while I have respect for people's faiths and follow my own ethnic traditions year after year I cannot accept illogical things like the above because it doesn't add up and the only time it does add up is when you forget all the questions and just accept it as it is and as you're preached to (which is something my logical train of thought can't do).


tl;dr perhaps....

Totally understand your views and I respect them. And yes, whichever form you pass away in, is the form you are presented in front of God. It's difficult to get your head round but that's how it is, in terms of belief, and what happens to you after your die.

When it does come down to it, it's I've been brought up this way, and my views will seem totally crazy to people, but it's what I believe, as is, what you believe.

'm not going to say you're wrong, but if you've chosen to live your life that way then so be it. You are a person of your own actions. But thanks for telling me, it was a good insight.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Vita, you either need to be much more careful with your phrasing in order to not say something you don't mean, or else you hold some worrying views.

Your response to someone's comments about Muslims (SOME Muslims) calling for the beheading of unbelievers was "well they must have done something to upset the Muslims first". I don't know about you, but in my world we don't call for people to be beheaded for ANY reason.

You can insult me, my religion, burn books and draw cartoons all you like - I'd still never call for you to be beheaded. I like to think I'm morally and spiritually more evolved than that, and I operate on a "love thy neighbour as thyself" and a "turn the other cheek" ethos (no, I'm not Christian but the point stands). I'd never lower myself, let alone to such savagery - whether in thought or deed - even under such relatively mild provocation. In fact I'd simply feel sorry for my wannabe protagonist.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and all that. I say this simply because even to myself, who has tried hard to see both sides and remain impartial, some of your statements do sound rather... iffy.

I wasn't going to say so, but now that you have, I concur.

 

[bhavv]

Science cannot define God, so it currently cannot prove or disprove Gods existence. This is an agnostic viewpoint.

Atheists categorcally dismiss the notion of God and as such this is a faith based position as you can not prove this either way.

Both science and atheists can dismiss God entirely as the idea of God defines it as existing outside of the physical and atomic realm, both of which we know are Physically impossible.

 

[Robbo]

Well what he believes in is what i believe in without a doubt but unlike Vita im not here to educate anyone...i did it in the past with these sort of topics but learnt my lesson very quickly so have stopped doing so as i dont fancy being mocked for my religious views as it is.

Of course if your not muslim then its pretty obvious that you wont believe in what islam says or find it difficult to comprehend etc....much like any other major world religion.

I fully appreciate that.

As long as you understand my point that its difficult for other people to understand and see things the same way that you do.

Most religious people, probably yourselves included have been brought up to believe and see the world the way that you do by your parents and/or family.

As long as people dont try and push religion on one another, I dont have a problem or issue with people believing what they want to believe.

When people start saying things like Vita did in the earlier stages of this thread, that people were 'scared of Islam' because they feared it was the right religion etc etc, that is what bugs me.

I know there was no malice in his words really, but he's said quite a few strange/worrying things that Rainmaker has pointed out now too.

I dont know about Bhavv, he's just............. Bhavv (Bhavvtastic maybe?)

 

[Tefal]

Totally understand your views and I respect them. And yes, whichever form you pass away in, is the form you are presented in front of God. It's difficult to get your head round but that's how it is, in terms of belief, and what happens to you after your die.

eternity crippled , torn and in agony?

Delightful.

 

[bhavv]

Its funny how you say on one hand that you have no issues with muslims but yet you have a problem with their beliefs and feel that their religion is evil...so logically by your thinking ie sane and rational...that would make all muslims just as evil right?? as they believe in what islam says.

I dont have an issue with 'Muslims'. Muslims think I have an issue with them because I dislike their religion.

Christians never assume this if I criticize or speak against anything from Christianity.

Why do Muslims take the viewpoint that a criticism of their religion, or some followers of thier religion is a personal attack against every Muslim?

No other religion or group of Humans assume this.

If a Muslim or a Christian calls Atheists 'Immoral scums', I dont consider this to be an issue against me unless it was said personally to me (which it has been done enough times, but of course, only by Muslims so far and never by a Christian).

Also lets get on fact clear. 'Islam' DOES have issues with Non Muslims, particularly Atheists. This is not a personal attack against any individual Muslim, but most of them will perceive it to be just that and will play the victim card.

 

[cheets64]

I dont have an issue with 'Muslims'. Muslims think I have an issue with them because I dislike their religion.

Christians never assume this if I criticize or speak against anything from Christianity.

Why do Muslims take the viewpoint that a criticism of their religion, or some followers of thier religion is a personal attack against every Muslim?

No other religion or group of Humans assume this.

Chip on the shoulder and years of being harassed by UK/USA Isreal but with the dirty tactics they use, they have nobody else to blame.

9/11 was an awful attack and tbh the next stop is Pakistan considering that country houses the next generation of the taliban and current taliban members.

 

[Biohazard]

so did they do it?

 

[Hatter The Mad]

The Koran burning has been cancelled, btw

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11255366

 

[Nanoman]

What if the mechanism, in this case mavity is divine in nature. Science would then need to explain mavity and so on. It has yet to do so.

Not entirely true tbh, mavity can be explained by the natural force of exertion evident in celestial objects. Einstein's Theory of General Relativity has an overwhelming amount of observable evidence. String Theory goes on to state why large objects demonstrate gravitation, but that starts going really deep and into parallel universes.

 

[Gaidin109]

Both science and atheists can dismiss God entirely as the idea of God defines it as existing outside of the physical and atomic realm, both of which we know are Physically impossible.

Quantum Physics anyone?

Science doesn't dismiss God, it simply cannot test the hypothesis so science would support an agnostic stance rather than an atheist one.

 

[Hatter The Mad]

What if the mechanism, in this case mavity is divine in nature. Science would then need to explain mavity and so on. It has yet to do so.

Science has a testable theory for mavity. It isn't bulletproof, but a damn sight more than "it is divine"

With our current understanding and knowledge a purely scientific position would be agnosticism, as we cannot prove God either way, we cannot even define what we are looking for in a scientific sense.

That doesn't matter though, goes it? If you're going to be agnostic about the existence of god, then you should be agnostic about everything. You are agnostic, then, as to whether or not a teapot is orbiting the moon.