Legal eagles - refurb laptop and the SoGA

[FoxEye]

Bought a refurb laptop from a company, via the Great River.

The laptop has demonstrated two faults a couple months outside their 1 year warranty. The hdd has failed and the laptop overheats so badly it shuts down after 5 mins. Both render the laptop unusable.

In my mind this demonstrates that the laptop was not "of satisfactory quality" when sold, just over a year ago.

Having googled about this, it's my impression that refurb units sold by a business are covered by the Sale of Goods Act in the same way as new units.

I've had several email exchanges where they refuse to do anything about it, as it's outside warranty. I'm now threatening to go to the Small Claims Court this week.

However, I want to make sure I'll win before I do. The laptop was I think £400, and I want to claim a repair or replacment, not a refund.

What do you guys think are my chances of success?

 

[Pudney]

I believe you need to show the fault existed at the time of purchase now (I think the time frame is six months).

So I wouldn't guess you'd be terribly successful I'm afraid (assuming you don't have said evidence).

 

[JBuk]

Try it, imo it's reasonable to expect a £400 laptop to last more than a year

 

[FoxEye]

I believe you need to show the fault existed at the time of purchase now (I think the time frame is six months).

So I wouldn't guess you'd be terribly successful I'm afraid (assuming you don't have said evidence).

I don't think that's right at all.

In the first 6 months (what you may be referring to), the seller must prove the item isn't/wasn't faulty, rather than the buyer needed to prove it is.

After 6 months, the buyer must prove there is a fault. I can do that simply by saying "none of my hard drives have ever failed within two years; this one must be of substandard quality", right?

 

[Amleto]

I don't think that's right at all.

In the first 6 months (what you may be referring to), the seller must prove the item isn't/wasn't faulty, rather than the buyer needed to prove it is.

After 6 months, the buyer must prove there is a fault. I can do that simply by saying "none of my hard drives have ever failed within two years; this one must be of substandard quality", right?

you might have to show that the/a fault was there *at the time of the sale*. not just that there is a problem with it now - because it might have developed because of something you have done.

anyway, I'm not expert on this aspect. I would also expect £400 laptop to last >1yr. At the end of the day, SoGA is about reasonable-ness.

 

[bobbydigital]

Not to sure on the legal side of this but out of my own curiosity am wondering if you would accept some form of "deal" from them. Say for example they accept responsibility that the refurbish wasn't up to proper standards and they strip, clean and apply fresh thermal paste to the cpu/gpu. But you are left to pay for the hdd as this only has a 1 year warranty normally for oem parts, also out of good will they will reinstall the operating system for free. Meaning that you don't pay any labour on the repair (which I feel is fair myself.)

How would that grab you if they offered something like that? If it sounds fair why not mail them that as an option and see if they want to help out. Price of a hdd should start from around £30.

 

[FoxEye]

you might have to show that the/a fault was there *at the time of the sale*. not just that there is a problem with it now - because it might have developed because of something you have done.

anyway, I'm not expert on this aspect. I would also expect £400 laptop to last >1yr. At the end of the day, SoGA is about reasonable-ness.

The wording of the Act doesn't talk about a fault being present at the time of the sale.

It says goods must be of satisfactory quality... if it fails just after 1 year then it wasn't of satisfactory quality at the time of the sale, or any time after that.

That's how I'm reading it....

 

[FoxEye]

Not to sure on the legal side of this but out of my own curiosity am wondering if you would accept some form of "deal" from them. Say for example they accept responsibility that the refurbish wasn't up to proper standards and they strip, clean and apply fresh thermal paste to the cpu/gpu. But you are left to pay for the hdd as this only has a 1 year warranty normally for oem parts, also out of good will they will reinstall the operating system for free. Meaning that you don't pay any labour on the repair (which I feel is fair myself.)

How would that grab you if they offered something like that? If it sounds fair why not mail them that as an option and see if they want to help out. Price of a hdd should start from around £30.

I'd take that, with no complaints or hard feelings. They won't offer it tho. They're just pointing to the 1yr warranty and saying "tough luck".

Which is typical.

 

[JBuk]

The wording of the Act doesn't talk about a fault being present at the time of the sale.

It says goods must be of satisfactory quality... if it fails just after 1 year then it wasn't of satisfactory quality at the time of the sale, or any time after that.

That's how I'm reading it....

best bet is to speak with consumer direct or whatever it's called

 

[.Simon]

I recommend posting on the MoneySavingExpert forums.

 

[bobbydigital]

I'd take that, with no complaints or hard feelings. They won't offer it tho. They're just pointing to the 1yr warranty and saying "tough luck".

Which is typical.

I thought that would be the case and it's the route the company I work for would take even if by law we didn't need to replace. It's just the nice/right thing to do

Well if they are going straight to that attitude I would pursue SoGA, I know it would work for a laptop of £400 value if brand new, like yourself I am unsure how you stand on a refurbished laptop.

Good luck!

 

[semi-pro waster]

After 6 months, the buyer must prove there is a fault. I can do that simply by saying "none of my hard drives have ever failed within two years; this one must be of substandard quality", right?

That's a little bit of an oversimplification and I'm not totally sure that you'd have advanced enough evidence to prove that it was a fault with the laptop or hard drive.

The wording of the Act doesn't talk about a fault being present at the time of the sale.

It says goods must be of satisfactory quality... if it fails just after 1 year then it wasn't of satisfactory quality at the time of the sale, or any time after that.

That's how I'm reading it....

However here you're essentially right, it'll come down to a courts interpretation if it goes that far but it would not seem patently unreasonable to expect a laptop to last longer than a year. The reasonableness will be weighted against how much it costs, what is typical for other products of the type etc.

 

[Pudney]

I don't think that's right at all.

In the first 6 months (what you may be referring to), the seller must prove the item isn't/wasn't faulty, rather than the buyer needed to prove it is.

After 6 months, the buyer must prove there is a fault. I can do that simply by saying "none of my hard drives have ever failed within two years; this one must be of substandard quality", right?

Sorry, my point was hurried as I was leaving for lunch. What I mean by that is that you'd be expected to show the fault was inherent with the product and is not due to external factors (e.g. misuse).

The onus would be on the supplier/manufacturer to show that it wasn't the products fault with X amount of time (which i believe is six months or could be a year, I can't really remember) and after X amount of time the onus would be on the claimee.

So what I'm getting at is the OP is most likely going to have to prove the product is at fault now and not his misuse etc. Although the courts apply the balance of probabilities so that's not a definitive requirement, just a guiding rule of thumb.

 

[FoxEye]

I recommend posting on the MoneySavingExpert forums.

Just posted there, not sure I trust that forum more than this one, tbh.

One of the first replies implied that the SoGA only covers you for 6-months... I'm thinking people believe this as it's what retailers will often tell you if you mention the SoGA.

Seems I'll have to go to Citizen's Advice or take real legal advice. Misinformation is worse than no information at all.

 

[Swifty55]

Just posted there, not sure I trust that forum more than this one, tbh.

One of the first replies implied that the SoGA only covers you for 6-months... I'm thinking people believe this as it's what retailers will often tell you if you mention the SoGA.

Seems I'll have to go to Citizen's Advice or take real legal advice. Misinformation is worse than no information at all.

So what was the point in this thread?

 

[FoxEye]

So what was the point in this thread?

Someone might have had a similar experience and have actual first-hand information to share.

What was the point of your reply?

 

[Pudney]

One of the first replies implied that the SoGA only covers you for 6-months... I'm thinking people believe this as it's what retailers will often tell you if you mention the SoGA.

Believe that was my post, in which case I don't mean the SoGA doesn't cover you, only about who has the burden of proof. Very important difference, potentially same outcome

 

[bledd]

I'd just buy a new hard drive, clean out the dust and reapply some thermal paste

 

[FoxEye]

Believe that was my post, in which case I don't mean the SoGA doesn't cover you, only about who has the burden of proof. Very important difference, potentially same outcome

Not here, on moneysavingexpert. Was not talking about any of the posters in this thread.

I was replying to a post saying "try moneysavingexpert"

 

[Pudney]

Not here, on moneysavingexpert. Was not talking about any of the posters in this thread.

I was replying to a post saying "try moneysavingexpert"

In which case I withdraw my tongue.