Nokia is the McDonald's of Phones

[Redmelo]

There is a pretty interresting article about Nokia on Gizmodo:

Nokia Is the McDonald's of Phones

Didn't you notice? It was just Nokia World! But with profits plummeting and executives fleeing—both at alarming rates—maybe it should have been a reckoning instead.

Let's not confuse things: Nokia still sells more phones than anybody on the planet. One in three mobile devices sold around the world this spring had Nokia stamped on the front. So why are their profits collapsing so precipitously, from $9 billion in 2007 to $312 million in 2009? And why can't they get back in the conversation?

Read here:
http://gizmodo.com/5638995/nokia-is-the-mcdonalds-of-phones

 

[Tunney]

Gizmodo are idiots. They really are the worst that online technology blogging has to offer, and that's quite an achievement. The linked post only backs up this statement.

 

[Redmelo]

Gizmodo are idiots. The linked post only backs up this statement.

Care to elaborate?

Do you think Nokia is still competitive in the smartphone market?

 

[neil3k]

it is a fair comment to be honest.

Nokia haven't been competitive since the N95 series

 

[Tunney]

Care to elaborate?

Do you think Nokia is still competitive in the smartphone market?

Without trying to get into a long rant...

Gizmodo, like many tech blogs, think that the mobile phone market only started in 2007 when the iPhone was released. For instance, this statement:

Where Nokia gets absolutely slaughtered is here in North America. It's by far their weakest market in terms of volume, largely because of the superior homegrown competition.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Nokia hasn't done well in the US since the 1990s and it has nothing to do with "superior homegrown competition". The reasons are complex but it's mainly down to Nokia's unwillingness to license Qualcomm's chipsets and the battle to be top dog between the operators and the handset manufacturers. Nokia effectively pulled out of the US long before the iPhone hit the market, largely because it was an unprofitable venture for them.

That's just one example I got give. The post also conveniently ignores Nokia's ultra high-end brand, Vertu, which is doing very well.

Do I think that Nokia is still competitive in the smartphone market? Their marketshare suggests so. Even if you look at profits, they're doing far, far better than the other traditional big five manufacturers (Moto, SE, LG, Samsung).

 

[Azuse05]

Gizmodo are idiots.

Not only is this true I'm not sure what the McDonalds analogy means tbh. All McDonalds has done is grow.

 

[Relentless81]

Nokia and McDonalds have nothing in common in line with what they are saying what so ever, is the person who written this a bit special, thats the only explanation

 

[Redmelo]

Regardless of how this article was written, I do agree with it. Try to see past the authors opinion and look at the facts.
Nokia has not shown enough innovation in their recent devices and have been playing catch-up for quite some time now.
I like Nokia, they have really great hardware, excellent builds - but do leave a lot to be desired concerning usability. I think they are still too stuck on making phones, rather than making portable devices that include the option to make phone calls, which destroys them in the smartphone market.

If you want a mobile phone, with the emphasis on making calls, SMS and having a long lasting battery - then Nokia is your best bet. However as soon as you want more you need to start looking elsewhere.

 

[Tunney]

If you want a mobile phone, with the emphasis on making calls, SMS and having a long lasting battery - then Nokia is your best bet. However as soon as you want more you need to start looking elsewhere.

What's your opinion on the N900 and MeeGo?

 

[Psycho Sonny]

If you want a mobile phone, with the emphasis on making calls, SMS and having a long lasting battery - then Nokia is your best bet. However as soon as you want more you need to start looking elsewhere.

you do know this is what a phone should be designed for? also the majority of people do not have enough tech savvy to mess about with custom roms, etc.

therefore for the majority of people nokia will always be number 1. as for not being innovative enough, havent they always had the best camera on a mobile? the n8 will be their newest achievement within that sector.

sure some people want android and custom rom's and design their own custom apps, but the majority don't.

to use a better anology and compare with car's rather than fast food chains.

Nokia is like BMW. Android is like a kit car. Blackberry is like a Mini Cooper. Iphone is like a Maybach (way overpriced).

 

[Redmelo]

What's your opinion on the N900 and MeeGo?

The N900 seems like a decent device, but once again they chose to go with a restive screen/stylus combo which, for me, is very off-putting. It is also rather bulky. I would never have considered to get a N900 over an Android powered HTC.

MeeGo is interesting and sounds promising, but it seems to be oriented towards netbooks and tablet pcs rather than smartphones. If it is supposed to compete with Android and iOS for smartphones, I think they will have a hard time entering the market. It's basically a very late time to enter that race and expect to come out on top or close to it.
Not that I don’t want them to be successful with it. After all we are the ones who benefit from healthy competition.

you do know this is what a phone should be designed for?

Mobile phone, yes, Smartphone, no. As we have clearly seen with the iPhone4.

also the majority of people do not have enough tech savvy to mess about with custom roms, etc.
therefore for the majority of people nokia will always be number 1.

That makes no sense. You are saying that people will prefer Nokia because their choices will be limited? You don’t have to customize your phone you know.
And the majority of people don't seem to agree with you, since the emphasis on all operating systems new and old, even iOS, is customization.

as for not being innovative enough, haven’t they always had the best camera on a mobile?

Innovation means advancement, in this case, advancement in technology. Consistently having the, arguably best (see Sony Ericsson), cameras has nothing to do with innovation. If they developed, say a 3D camera (as example) for mobile phones, that would be innovation.

sure some people want android and custom rom's and design their own custom apps, but the majority don't.

See above.

to use a better anology and compare with car's rather than fast food chains.

Nokia is like BMW. Android is like a kit car. Blackberry is like a Mini Cooper. Iphone is like a Maybach (way overpriced).

I’m sorry to say this, but it seems you have no idea what Android offers and your analogy does not really make sense to me.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

The N900 seems like a decent device, but once again they chose to go with a restive screen/stylus combo which, for me, is very off-putting. It is also rather bulky. I would never have considered to get a N900 over an Android powered HTC.

MeeGo is interesting and sounds promising, but it seems to be oriented towards netbooks and tablet pcs rather than smartphones. If it is supposed to compete with Android and iOS for smartphones, I think they will have a hard time entering the market. It's basically a very late time to enter that race and expect to come out on top or close to it.
Not that I don’t want them to be successful with it. After all we are the ones who benefit from healthy competition.




Mobile phone, yes, Smartphone, no. As we have clearly seen with the iPhone4.



That makes no sense. You are saying that people will prefer Nokia because their choices will be limited? You don’t have to customize your phone you know.
And the majority of people don't seem to agree with you, since the emphasis on all operating systems new and old, even iOS, is customization.



Innovation means advancement, in this case, advancement in technology. Consistently having the, arguably best (see Sony Ericsson), cameras has nothing to do with innovation. If they developed, say a 3D camera (as example) for mobile phones, that would be innovation.



See above.



I’m sorry to say this, but it seems you have no idea what Android offers and your analogy does not really make sense to me.

Android is mainly for enthusiasts. Rich people will opt for iPhone and high end nokia's and high end bb. Normal people will opt for mid end nokia's and mid end bb.

Think of it this way. What phone does your mum, dad, grandparents have?

Now think of everybody else. What phones do their mum, dad, grandparents have?

Android is for people who are interested in phones a lot more than the average person. I dont know a single person who has an Android phone.

Brother (14) has lg, Sister (23) has bb, Dad (49) has nokia, Me (25) nokia, Fiancee (24) has bb (getting iPhone 4 next week), her 2 brothers have bb, their wives have bb, her mum and dad have samsung and nokia.

Now move onto my cousins. 3 of them have iPhone's, 1 has nokia and their dad's have iPhones.

Now move onto my friends. 6 of them have an iPhone, 3 of them have bb's.

The majority of guys on this forum are geek's therefore are interested on smartphones and customisation therefore most of them are interested in android. The normal average person isn't.

 

[Derek W]

If you want a mobile phone, with the emphasis on making calls, SMS and having a long lasting battery - then Nokia is your best bet. However as soon as you want more you need to start looking elsewhere.

I'd hardly agree with that. The N95 and N96 has terrible battery life, in fact most of the S60 series did because of the symbian operating system over the java range of handsets.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I'd hardly agree with that. The N95 and N96 has terrible battery life, in fact most of the S60 series did because of the symbian operating system over the java range of handsets.

the original N95 yes.

The n95 black had good battery life and the n96 has amazing battery life.

there is a power saving mode on the n96 (so long as you have updated the firmware), which if turned on (by pressing the power button and scrolling to bottom), my dad's phone will last for 2 days, thats with him using the phone as normal, he has unlimited calls 02 to 02 and free mins so he uses it a lot. with this feature off however it will only last a day.

 

[Redmelo]

Android is mainly for enthusiasts.

Why?

Rich people will opt for iPhone and high end nokia's and high end bb. Normal people will opt for mid end nokia's and mid end bb.

So?

Think of it this way. What phone does your mum, dad, grandparents have?
Now think of everybody else. What phones do their mum, dad, grandparents have?

Most of them don’t have smartphones which makes this argument obsolete in this thread.

Android is for people who are interested in phones a lot more than the average person.

You said the same thing in your first sentence. I'll ask again, why?

I dont know a single person who has an Android phone.

Brother (14) has lg, Sister (23) has bb, Dad (49) has nokia, Me (25) nokia, Fiancee (24) has bb (getting iPhone 4 next week), her 2 brothers have bb, their wives have bb, her mum and dad have samsung and nokia.

Now move onto my cousins. 3 of them have iPhone's, 1 has nokia and their dad's have iPhones.

Now move onto my friends. 6 of them have an iPhone, 3 of them have bb's.

The majority of guys on this forum are geek's therefore are interested on smartphones and customisation therefore most of them are interested in android. The normal average person isn't.

So what’s your point?

This thread is not about what your friends and relatives use. This thread is about how Nokia is losing its grip, if it ever had one, on the smartphone market.

If anything you are confirming what the article said. Presuming the above are all smartphones, you know only 3 out of 23 people who use Nokia.

I'd hardly agree with that. The N95 and N96 has terrible battery life, in fact most of the S60 series did because of the symbian operating system over the java range of handsets.

The N95 and N96 are both so called smartphones, as is pretty much the entire S60 series. I thought I made it clear that I would recommend Nokia for non-smarthphones....

It would be interesting to see who you think makes longer lasting, battery wise, phones than Nokia?

 

[FeFiDoh]

The fact they dont have smart phones doesnt make it obsolete. Near enough everyone I work with has a bog standard phone by that I mean an old nokia/SE/Samsung and the like these are the people that buy a phone to be a phone.

Its not as if Nokia are going to implode or go any where.

Didnt Mcdonalds have issues few years back now with all this fad about healthy eating etc.. they made those salads and other menu ideas and went from strength to strength?

They merely adapted and grew so not quite sure about the link.

 

[Redmelo]

The fact they dont have smart phones doesnt make it obsolete.

It does since this is about smarthphone market share.

Its not as if Nokia are going to implode or go any where.

A 10% decline in smartphone sales in one year and profits falling from $9 billion in 2007 to $312 million in 2009 is very extreme.

 

["andy"]

It does since this is about smarthphone market share.



A 10% decline in smartphone sales in one year and profits falling from $9 billion in 2007 to $312 million in 2009 is very extreme.

well that 9 billion is not smartphone related so why mention it if this is about smartphone market share ?


they will pick themselves up . SE where in a much worse off state and are back doing fine . certain people will always buy nokia. those people havent really got into smartphones 'yet'. average joe does not own a smartphone and wont untill they become more affordable. id probably expect nokia to be one of the first companys making them affordable...

 

[Tunney]

A 10% decline in smartphone sales in one year and profits falling from $9 billion in 2007 to $312 million in 2009 is very extreme.

Nokia's smartphone marketshare dropped 10%. Sales actually increased by 41%. In the second quarter of this year, Nokia sold more smartphones than Apple and Android put together. In fact, they also added more new customers than either Apple or Android.

As for how much profit they're making, we're in a global recession. Many companies are struggling, not just Nokia. Nokia have been hit hard because they're very popular in a lot of markets that have seen the worst of the recession. Sony Ericsson, Motorola, Samsung and LG have all been hit harder.

I think Stephen Elop's appointment as CEO is an interesting one. It sounds like he was appointed mainly to fix investors' perception of Nokia. Like Microsoft, the vast amount of negative press has left their stock at a very undervalued price.

 

[Derek W]

I'm a bit confused this thread now. Is it or is it not about smartphones, cos as andy mentioned above the initial quote relates to overall sales from nokia rather than the smartphone range.

Also just for clarification what does the OP deem to be a smartphone as he doesn't think the series 60 nokias are smartphones?