old cars and new cars

Now THAT is cool.

I totally get why cars that were once awesome are still awesome, perhaps even more so, as they age. There are many old cars I think are great. Here is just a selection:

Mercedes SL. BMW E30 M3. Audi Quattro. Lancia Delta HF Integrale. Mk2 Escort RS2000. Ferrari F40. Porsche 911. etc etc.

Whats the difference between this and a Vauxhall Belmont, or perhaps a Vauxhall Corsa, a sure fire future 'old skool classic hatch man'?

They were good cars when they were new!

A car is not a wine. It does not get better with age - but it can remain as good as it ages. Therefore a car that was freaking awesome in 1980 is still freaking awesome today. A car that was totally average in 1980 is not awesome today.

Look at Lopez in his Manta. Is that cool? Yes. Was it a peice of junk when it was new? No. Was it cool when it was new? Yes.
 
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[TW]Fox;17444017 said:
Lancia Delta HF Integrale
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A friend of mine has owned one of these for the last 6 years. He saved up for ages to get a mint one. It causes him no end of trouble and the maintenance is so expensive. But you can't help just smiling when you see it and go for a drive in it. It is raw, unpredictable, but just totally awesome. It feels dangerous when you are in it. Amazing car.
 
PapaLazaru said:
A friend of mine has owned one of these for the last 6 years. He saved up for ages to get a mint one. It causes him no end of trouble and the maintenance is so expensive. But you can't help just smiling when you see it and go for a drive in it. It is raw, unpredictable, but just totally awesome. It feels dangerous when you are in it. Amazing car.
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Absolutely. I never, ever want to buy one and I'd hate to own one but its the sort of car I'd pull over for a look if I saw one in RL.

Not really in the same league as a Ford Cortina.
 
Some epic cars in the 80's some still stand the test of time, perhaps even increase in epicness by feeling good today even in their basic form. The issue of course is many of the cars from that day are today pish and when modern yoof drives em they can't see what the all the fuss was about. "Why did everyone rave about these 205's, so bloody slow, my Focus is quicker". Kind of misses the point and of course, drive down a dual carriageway and I can see how it might suffer the comparison. I mean, RS500 was 220bhp as was the Evo version of the first M3 and most shopping cars today have 300000bhp.
 
[TW]Fox;17444063 said:
Absolutely. I never, ever want to buy one and I'd hate to own one but its the sort of car I'd pull over for a look if I saw one in RL.

Not really in the same league as a Ford Cortina.
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Unless it's a Lotus Cortina!
 
They were only slightly epic though and i can just imagine how epic it'd feel in the Bayswater road on a rainy tuesday in a traffic jam :)
 
Mad old tory said:
Unless it's a Lotus Cortina!
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cortina_jim_clark_1966.jpg


Nuff said.
 
Older cars all the way tbh. As someone said before I think it peaked around the mid 90's. You had Homologation specials and a lot of top end stuff for little money. This is especially true for JDM products. MR2, Celica, Pulsar/Almera, Civic Type R for example have all gone backwarks. We have no more NSX, no more S2000, no more MR2.

Everything today is all built to emmissions and most high performance new cars are out of reach to most people.

The only company that have improved in my eyes are vauxhall. Especially with their VXR range compared to their GSi range 10-15 years ago.
 
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I like both.

Old: I've never lost a penny on an "old" car I've had. None of them have been nails. In fact, the E30 I sold was checked out by a BMW mechanic who said it felt tighter than most E46s he got in. This was in 2006. They don't all rattle or smell like dog, but most are nails due to cheap owners. The right "old" car is great fun and a rewarding car to own.

New: I've had lots of new cars too. They have the confidence that you can leave them anywhere and you know that you can drive to the continent and back without bringing spares. They also impress people who are easily impressed which can be good for work related times.

All in all - there are good and bad examples of both!
 
As far as motorsport goes you can pretty much keep modern forms, it really is less spectacular and less interesting than back in the day. Wings and 'standard' engines across the formulas, god help us!

Typical club race and Donington in late 70's..
dp81-ss-grid.jpg


There is over 2000bhp on the first 2 rows here....just as an example.
 
adam cool dude said:
Everything today is all built to emmissions
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Each manufacturers higher end cars are more powerful and faster than ever before!

A Focus ST is quicker than a Ford Escort Cosworth. A BMW M5 is considerably quicker than an E34 M5. A Golf GTI is faster than it was in 1995. The fastest non M Power 3 Series in 1995 was 192bhp. Now, the fastest non M Power 3 Series is even quicker than the mid 90's M3 at over 300bhp. In 95 a hot Clio had 150bhp, now it has 200bhp...

But yea, it was way better in 95, right? Before all the emissions stuff, yea?
 
[TW]Fox;17444124 said:
Each manufacturers higher end cars are more powerful and faster than ever before!

A Focus ST is quicker than a Ford Escort Cosworth. A BMW M5 is considerably quicker than an E34 M5. A Golf GTI is faster than it was in 1995. The fastest non M Power 3 Series in 1995 was 192bhp. Now, the fastest non M Power 3 Series is even quicker than the mid 90's M3 at over 300bhp. In 95 a hot Clio had 150bhp, now it has 200bhp...

But yea, it was way better in 95, right? Before all the emissions stuff, yea?
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I know it's not really your point but I'd wager that most of the newer ones do pump out less crap than their predecessors and it's a happy coincidence that they're more powerful too. Weight has got to be the biggest difference between old and new cars though which I know a lot of people aren't fans of because it can dilute the driving experience.
 
Its not just about power and straight line speed Fox :)

Older cars are as a general rule, lighter and less insulated (in terms of interior comfort, but also in terms of feedback to the driver) which can make them a more involving drive, which is what a lot of enthusiasts like. That they are often rattly and noisy does not take away from that fact.
 
Emissions are not the issue, the engines have actually improved massively, this is where the game has really moved on a pace. The issue is weight, lightness is REALLY not something you can say about anything these days, even the Elise is 500 tone heavier than a Granda.
 
[TW]Fox;17444163 said:
I totally understand that, but his opinion seemed to be that emissions regulations had ruined everything. This is obviously not the case.
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True true, re-reading what you read I can see what you meant.....

Its the lightness and the feel that people miss. Lightness and being less insulated from road noise, bumps, wind noise and engine noise tends to make things feel a hell of a lot quicker than they really are....so older stuff being slower in real terms isn't necessarily as noticable as one might think looking at the numbers in isolation.
 
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