Why do you think people don’t like the Police?

[FireShadow]

speeding is foolish as there is nothing to be gained by it

I never deliberately speed - and try and maintain perfect speed control
just to make sure I never have to pay those scum any money

but I still got a speeding ticket from a broken radar in bedford
and nothing I could do - all police paperwork in order

 

[Biohazard]

I've lived on a mildy rough estate for the last few months i am yet to see a police car.

The police used to have a duty to the public when you had a loacl bobby, but now all they care about is getting money out of you.

I don't agree at all with what you said above about them not being able to get real jobs.

I know a lot of people who worked with me who have moved to Police, UKBA or SOCA etc. They all got their jobs on merit, and held them through performance. The successfuly transfered to Other Government Deparments.

They are still, as I understand, very successful in their careers of Law Enforcement. I find comments like that are normally borne from distrust or ignorance.

That's not to say I've not encountered the odd knob end bobby. More often than not its red tape that ties the police up more than anything. Other than that, they are doing their prescribed job.

I grew up on a council scheme, and I live in another. I see the police all the time, although the responses are not always appropriate but this is another matter. What is a problem though is bike theft, and the fact that they can't chase them when they don't wear helmet. Unlike down south, the Police in Scotland like everything else here is vastly under equipped, there is one helicopter in Glasgow and that's it for the whole of Scotland, and if it is used its used over there on the whole.

This, along with H&S rules, practically give these youngsters a free license to ride probably stolen motorbikes at will without repercussion elsewhere in Scotland. Without more funding, this won't change. The police service has no option but to contract in size now.

I'm not sure what Liverpool is like, but problems like above are engrained into people here. The police sometimes, really are a joke, but institutionally and through politics not the actual function of ‘policing’ at a simplistic level. But, that is not the fault of the policeman and women that turn up.
This is where having a balanced and informative view forms opinions, as opposed to hate for something that people only see one side of.. and even then that can be drenched in social/criminal bias.
I’ve had officers try to turn me over in the street for reasons well beyond me and its easy to deal with the idiots out there jumping the gun and taking ‘authority’ too far etc. By in large though, they are the minority in what I have experienced. Even in the rougher parts of town..

 

[Werewolf]

It is also a crime that by-passes huge parts of the legal system (ie day in court) as a means to save "money"...

.

And yet, you have the right to take it to the magistrates court if you wished...most people don't and so go for the fixed penalty.
If even just a small percentage opted for court it would flood the court system and they might have to do something about it.

One of the reasons for the fixed penalties is that it saves the government money (no need for the court time, and that saving is passed on as you don't pay costs as well as the fine), however the other reason is that most people don't want to spend their time attending the court for a relatively small fine (remember you can refuse to take the fixed penalty).

 

[Fr0dders]

Laws devised, imposed and upheld by idiots. Why can't i do as i like aslong as i don't harm anyone?

My personal interactions with the police have never been good yet i've never broken the law.

The police to me is for people who can't get real jobs.. another give money away, free benefit system created by labour

Where is my pension? damn, I hate the public sector!!!!11!

you appear to have confused police officers with security guards

The sort that wanted to be in the police, but couldnt make it, but have a chip on their shoulder about it and act like they are the police, when they arent.

 

[Biohazard]

And while we are on the subject of motoring let's not forget things like Section 59 which are technically illegal as there is no court case to go with it - so no chance to face your accuser in a court of law.
Let's not forget S172 notices which infringe on your basic right to NOT self-incriminate.

Not in Scotland it isn't

 

[valerian]

Because of the media.

+1

and 'some' of them are hypocrites

 

[Von Smallhausen]

They should have a proper screening process in place to tell the good cops from the bad by setting up crimes that aren't actually real to test the bobbys on a regular basis i.e get a bunch of actors to play out a fictional crime and have someone standing on the sidelines as it's played out to see how the bobbys react when faced with a real crime of a simelar nature.

You mean like a mystery shopper type scenario ? That has been in place in my workplace and others for the last 3 years, pro-actively ran by the CCIU.

They really thought piling onto of him was going to stop/reduce the blast of a bomb ? ............ you are having a laugh mate.

No. I am am not having a laugh and I doubt the cops who shot him weren't wither.

Either way, they murdered an innocent man, doesn't matter what they thought at the time, thats the result of their actions.

They did not murder Mr de Menezes. Where is the malice aforethought ?

Von Smaulhausen isn't representative of all officers you know.

Your card is marked bonny lad !!

 

[Burnsy2023]

Your card is marked bonny lad !!

Wicked. I didn't realise I'd even get a Christmas card this year...

 

[Werewolf]

Wicked. I didn't realise I'd even get a Christmas card this year...

I thought he was talking about your dance card, he does a great Foxtrot.

 

[VoG]

the fact that that no-one has ever been brought to justice over his state execution speaks volumes of how accountable the police really are

there have been far more questionable shootings than JCM.

James Ashley and Harry Stanley for starters.

when alls said & done, the police are made up of members of society, just as you get good & bad in the general population, you will also get good & bad in the police force, on a personal level i neither like or dislike them, much the same as i neither like or dislike plumbers

in short i'm indifferent as i have no reason to be otherwise.

 

[Brian8bit]

I've seen some absolute ****s get into the police force. A catholic fella who told me in a bar one night he would have me, my brothers and my mum, who was a prison officer at the time, shot by the provo's is now in the PSNI. That's the wonders of 50/50 enforcement.

 

[rypt]

And yet, you have the right to take it to the magistrates court if you wished...most people don't and so go for the fixed penalty.
If even just a small percentage opted for court it would flood the court system and they might have to do something about it.

One of the reasons for the fixed penalties is that it saves the government money (no need for the court time, and that saving is passed on as you don't pay costs as well as the fine), however the other reason is that most people don't want to spend their time attending the court for a relatively small fine (remember you can refuse to take the fixed penalty).

Yes, but the costs of actually attending court are disproportionate due to the huge increase in the amount you are likely to pay. That should not occur, you should ALWAYS have to attend court (or do so by mail), even if it is to plead guilty.
Basically there should ALWAYS be a court case to go along with any fine.

Let's not forget that FPNs for things like littering etc don't have court cases either now.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Yes, but the costs of actually attending court are disproportionate due to the huge increase in the amount you are likely to pay. That should not occur, you should ALWAYS have to attend court (or do so by mail), even if it is to plead guilty.
Basically there should ALWAYS be a court case to go along with any fine.

Let's not forget that FPNs for things like littering etc don't have court cases either now.

Why should there always be a court case for any fine? If you're going to plead guilty anyway then why waste the courts time and yours? That's not forgetting the extra cost for having the court case taken that far, the time off work, the judge(s) sitting for the case just to hear a "I plead guilty m'lud".

 

[rypt]

Because the whole point of the court is to oversee the police arm, to ensure that procedure is followed ... that there is basic paperwork to backup when the notification is sent, basic paperwork when the camera was last calibrated, that it is type approved, that the speed limit order and the camera positioning order are both in order, etc.

All this should be looked at by a neutral 3rd party (ie part of the judicial system rather than the police/CPS) prior to someone having to pay any sort of fine... ideally without the defended having to even ask for it.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Because the whole point of the court is to oversee the police arm, to ensure that procedure is followed ... that there is basic paperwork to backup when the notification is sent, basic paperwork when the camera was last calibrated, that it is type approved, that the speed limit order and the camera positioning order are both in order, etc.

All this should be looked at by a neutral 3rd party (ie part of the judicial system rather than the police/CPS) prior to someone having to pay any sort of fine... ideally without the defended having to even ask for it.

I think you may be coming at this from the wrong angle although I can partially agree - the court is there to determine guilt or innocence, not specifically to oversee the police. However if the point is that the police should not be usurping the courts role in determining guilt or innocence then I'd agree - it's worth noting though that the police aren't doing that in terms of speeding offences, they can be contested but many choose to simply admit guilt earlier rather than risk potentially a larger fine or other punitive measure so the police are in effect there simply an administrative body recording and processing a guilty plea.

I'm not sure if you realise exactly how much extra work and cost you're attempting to apply to the judicial system - to have an independent body examine every case and to have court proceedings for even the most trivial of offences would bring what is already a heavily burdened system to its knees. The court system is not particularly cheap as it is, justice shouldn't have a price you may say but realistically there is a cost/benefit analysis that has to take place and that additional expense would make it more likely that some criminals would not be tried - it might benefit a few people who are innocent but it's entirely disproportionate to the harm that exists.

 

[Kennysevenfold]

Cause there ******

 

[TangoSixteen]

I think once the police start treating members of the public as "customers" (LOL) then we might see an improvement to their attitude.

Certainly lots of other public services are taking the "customers" approach to what they do.

It's lame, but if it results in a more professional approach, then cool.

 

[Energize]

A lot of people dislike the police because they infringe on the rights of others by arresting people for drugs, "extreme pornography", "obscene publications", taking photographs of parks, and a myriad of other victimless crimes, ironically making many police constables worse than the criminals, abduction and false imprisonment are worse than petty theft after all.

 

[rypt]

I'm not sure if you realise exactly how much extra work and cost you're attempting to apply to the judicial system - to have an independent body examine every case and to have court proceedings for even the most trivial of offences would bring what is already a heavily burdened system to its knees. The court system is not particularly cheap as it is, justice shouldn't have a price you may say but realistically there is a cost/benefit analysis that has to take place and that additional expense would make it more likely that some criminals would not be tried - it might benefit a few people who are innocent but it's entirely disproportionate to the harm that exists.

That is the point though, motoring are such minor offences that were it not for by-passing the judicial process the police would not bother with them otherwise.

Perhaps SINCE they are such minor offences they should not bother with them, or use the full judicial process if they feel they are an offence major enough to justify the costs.

A lot of people dislike the police because they infringe on the rights of others by arresting people for drugs, "extreme pornography", "obscene publications", taking photographs of parks, and a myriad of other victimless crimes, ironically making many police constables worse than the criminals, abduction and false imprisonment are worse than petty theft after all.

Back on topic ... this is spot on.

Police are enforcing many laws that people no longer agree with, and while you cannot blame the police for the original laws, the police do have the ability to apply discretion.
But to be fair, I have no respect for the whole authority in this country, from the Government setting the laws, to the Judicial system giving joke sentences, to the CPS failing to act in many cases, to the Police enforcing those laws.

 

[craptakular]

If I think about it, it's not so much the police I dislike, but the law, and the belief people (including the police) have that law is somehow above the freedom of individuals and everything else.

'Law' has been responsible for some of the most disgusting treatment of human beings the world has ever known, and continues to be on a daily basis, yet is often held up as the most important aspect of our society. I cannot respect such a flawed concept.

Interesting point sir, never considered this view.