Martial arts for self-defence for rookies - the experts need to be more frank I think.

KatanaDV20

KatanaDV20

KatanaDV20

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Hey guys :D

This was goin through my head the other day when I was at my martial arts class (Im a totally beginner BTW).

So Ive been attending a martial class for the past 8 weeks and thoroughly enjoying it. I signed up primalily to get fit and in that respect its delivering...the instructors push us hard and very agressively and I enjoy it. Goodbye belly flab :p...well it will take a few more months before I notice a diff but I can feel endurance slowly increase.

These are 2-hr sessions and the last 15-20mins is usually spent with the black belters showing us rookies self-defence moves. They make it look so easy. Showing us how to counter the typical assault scenarios in a nightclub, bar, on the street etc.

Im not arguing with the techniques...heck I got to try them myself when we were paired up with a partner. The counter to the roundhouse punch is brutally effective if you spot the punch coming & *can keep your head and not freak out* in a real-life situation. When demo'd to us the instructors have the "bad guy" on the floor in like two seconds.

But I cant help being extremely sceptical. I havent asked if any of those black-belts have been asssualted. A long time ago I was attacked while abroad on my way back from a club. It happens **SO FAST** and with such ferocity that you seriously dont know whats happenin. The fear was immense but I had the presence of mind to hold my hands and block his powerful swinging punches that came at me like lightining. Once done he legged it....I dont have any idea what it was for he didnt take anything off me.

So watching these scenarios play out in the comfort of a dojo with all the attacks done nice and slow "Right Im coming at you with a right-hand roundhouse, here I come!" gives the rookies a false sense of security. Now of course it HAS to be done slow to start with but the thing is.... its always done this way. We need to go full speed with protection to appreciate the techniques.

I feel the instructors need to REALLY mention the fact to rookies that such things will only work with constant DAILY practice with partners paired up wearing full protective gear and the attacks going in at FULL speed with max agression.

But I guess they cannot do this due to "health and safety" issues etc. as a martial arts club owner thats understadable I guess...

If this is not the case its a dreamworld. Had I not gone through that street-attack I would have bought into all this...like my friends have. Some think they can all take out any baddie who puts em into a choke hold. I would have agreed...had I not gone through the experience of a street-attack.

I believe the REAL learning in any martial art only starts when you get that black belt. Its only at THAT stage and beyond that such techniques will become SECOND NATURE. If jumped from behind you shouldnt have to even think....the defence technique comes naturally with full force and the baddie is on the ground not knowing what hit him.

Now I havent said anything in my class and I wont. Its not like I dont enjoy learning these moves....theres no doubt that once mastered they can get you out of a spot provided you practice relentlessly (not easy to do) and can keep your cool when attacked - and the latter takes **supreme** mental discipline.

In a funny way Im glad I was jumped that night...I now KNOW what a street attack is and am more prepared (no more walking down dark roads for me!) Also Im thankful that the loser who went at me was unarmed and used just his fists. I will say this though - the blocks worked awesomely and I came out unscathed exepct for bruised arms & hands.

I think martial arts experts need to drum into the newbies that they are not gonna turn into Jet Li in a street-attack situation after 1 year...or ...2....or 3.....without reletless constant drilling in very realistic fashion.

I dunno...what do ya'll think....will be interested to hear from black-belters and rookies like me who do martial arts of any kind.....:)
 
Ask yourself if you are getting what you want from your training. If you want more then find classes that are more hardcore :)
 
Why haven't you spoken to your instructor(s) about this? Seems the logical place to start.

I'm sure they'll know shock and fear in a self defence situation are the hardest things to overcome and have advice - you are only just starting out after all.
 
Well, i can't help just agree with you. Not much to add really, just get that black belt and begin the real training :)
 
Getting used to being in a situation where you are being attacked is worth it alone. It takes the edge off and allows you to think more clearly, and react better. Not panicing is half the battle, putting yourself in a situation, albeit contrived, where you are being attacked is the only way to get over this.
 
my stepson was doing karate for a few months and got attacked by someone in the street he punched them and legged it lol.

probably would have had the same outcome wether hehad been going to karate or not but if its building confidence in your ability to defend yourself i guess thats all you need
 
You can't really expect after being trained in something for a few weeks to be as proficient to use it perfectly.

I mean, assume that you go to learn how to use Excel. They will show you all the shortcuts and how-to's, but unless you actually spend enough time with the platform until it becomes a subconscious thing you won't get the benefit.

To that respect I think that your trainers should have clarified this to dispell the myth of "take a few classes and you can throttle all the baddies" and really explain that it is about a long term committment to training in order for things to become casual reflexes.

Don't forget though that some of the things you learn there will be of use in a fight if you can keep your cool and that is what the simulated fights are there for, to get you into the fashion of being attacked so it doesn't shock you.

Oh, and not all street attacks are lightning fast and unprovoked, many times you will start with a verbal confrontation before it escalates and in that case you have an advantage because you know how to respond to physical violence when it starts.
 
KatanaDV20 said:
Hey guys :D


I believe the REAL learning in any martial art only starts when you get that black belt. Its only at THAT stage and beyond that such techniques will become SECOND NATURE. If jumped from behind you shouldnt have to even think....the defence technique comes naturally with full force and the baddie is on the ground not knowing what hit him.
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My two kids are going for their Brown belts this coming weekend, they've been doing karate for just over 2 years now, twice a week without fail. A lot of the techniques you speak about are 2nd nature to them NOW. I instilled into them that they must learn self defence because basically there are some severe LOW LIFES out there and they must be in a position to defend themselves at all times. Needless to say I'm hoping to be a very proud Dad come Saturday evening. BTW one is 15 the other is 9 :D and it also helps that my wife is at the same level :p Mess with me, mess with my family...lol
 
These things take a long time.

Did Judo for 4 years, stopped (for some stupid reason) as close to a black belt as you can be without actually being one (days theory done, one fight out of ten left to win).

It took me 2 years of fighting, practice twice a week, competitions once a month, summer camp etc etc just to have it be second nature in a fight at the club/competition. Two years to stop thinking about what I was doing when I was ready for it anyway!

Even after 4 years of doing it, national/international/area competitions/best in club and area, I still wasn't instinctive in everyday life. Been in a few fights, every time I have been hit at first, and every time they have succeeded in hitting me. What happened after they hit me (never been floored) was another matter, that's where training came in for me, now I was ready for it and could pre-empt their actions, but when you don't know it's coming and have half a second to go from completely relaxed to blocking something, I just can't see it happening!

Being ready for things to come out of the blue at all times is just not possible, you have to be in the mindset, you will always need some warning, because unfortunately you can never practice for the out of the blue attack.

I came to the conclusion that if someone hits me out of the blue, I learn to survive the initial hit, and then react.
Or if I can see it coming (argument, squaring up to me etc) that's when I can avoid ever getting hurt.
 
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The main thing is it gives you some exposure to that kinda situation and a mental process for dealing with it - so your better able to handle the situation and escape or minimize the damage.

In reality the only thing thats really useful to your average person is avoiding/braking locks/holds, etc. the rest is only really applicable with a lot of practise including experience in real life situations and even then I've seen people with black belts beaten to a crap by your average street brawler type.
 
i think you need to give it a lot more time.
martial arts arent just abotu self defence and kicking people like jackie chan, you can get so much out of it, its untrue. if you keep at it, youll have a sort of self confidence build up and you will get to the stage of things coming second nature to you, thats not to say you will be invincible but you certainly get an understanding and be used to combat and putting it into practice.
there will always be danger in confrontation with strangers but i guess all im saying is, with time you will get confident and hopefully be able to deal with those moments of panic and be able to compose yourself well.
i dotn think the instructors need to mention anythign what youve said as many people dont train in martial arts to beat thugs up on the street, they go for lots of reason from getting fit to learning self discipline etc.
i think theres specific classes/instructors that do deal with muggings and streetfights etc, theyre brutal though but will be more up there with real self defense scenarios.
 
TangoSixteen said:
If I completed my martial arts training, I would actually be fearful of causing another mans death should I lose my temper in a more ferocious than normal fashion.
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I don't think you could cause any harm at all by sitting behind your monitor with your keyboard.
 
TangoSixteen said:
If I completed my martial arts training, I would actually be fearful of causing another mans death should I lose my temper in a more ferocious than normal fashion.
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I also worry about this, but only in case I get sentenced to 7-10 in a federal institution, then upon my parole 8 years later John Malkovich tries to take over the flight I'm taking to the Supermax prison and I have to stop them with the help of John Cusack.
 
I'm more than a human, I'm a lethal weapon.

I reckon you need to get the technique first, then the reaction will come.
 
The problem is that at a beginner level you simply cannot simulate a real-life situation for safety reasons. You already need to have learned the technique to the point where you start to react automatically to the attack and that takes a lot of time and practice. Not once in practice have I thrown a punch (or made any other kind of attack) at someone intending to connect, because you can't be 100% certain at lower level grades that they will defend it effectively. The only time I've tried is when my own instructor has asked me to, and of course I never got close.

If you want to learn how to defend yourself against a realistic attack without first going through the motions with technique you're going to have to expect to get hurt. A lot. That's if you can find someone willing to beat on you for real, which no professional instructor is likely to condone. The closest you'll find is probably Combatives, which is more about striking hard and fast and single-mindedly taking out your opponent with everything you've got.
 
My opinion of martial arts (From around 7 years experience)

Most martial arts will not prepare you for a real street fight. In fact they can often have the opposite effect as they give you false confidence, or bewilder you will so many techniques you will fail to produce a suitable defence/offence when you really need it.

You cannot block a punch. It cannot and will not happen.

It's a good idea on learning how to stop a potential fight at the verbal stage through the use of body language and verbal tones. The best and imo the only way to lauch a suitable defence is to go on the offence as soon as you know a fight is unavoidable.

If you wait for a punch to be thrown, you will almost definately be hit unless it is massively telegraphed.

Boxing will prepare you far better than most martial arts, as you will be used to giving and taking punishment, which is something you simply do not get from most systems. The downside obviously is that you will likely receive far more injuries/bruises etc from training than you ever will on the street!
 
Volcs said:
I also worry about this, but only in case I get sentenced to 7-10 in a federal institution, then upon my parole 8 years later John Malkovich tries to take over the flight I'm taking to the Supermax prison and I have to stop them with the help of John Cusack.
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who wouldnt want that tbh? atleast your girlfriend at the end is fit! :cool:
 
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