Man imprisoned for not giving police password.

[rypt]

Once again, you don't have the right to silence in a search (you have to open things if requested), and you aren't incriminating yourself by opening something.

You incriminate yourself by possessing something forbidden, not by opening the box it is in.

You may not prevent the police from doing something, but if you follow the letter and spirit of the human rights rules both from EU and UN you have the right to stay silent whenever questioned by police and so do not have to help them find a key to a thing, you can basically sit/stand there like a statue.

Self-incrimination (under EU, USA, UN definitions) includes furnishing evidence against yourself ... this can be taken as assisting the police to get evidence that can then later be used against you. If you know that a box contains things that will be used against you you have a right to not help the police gain access to that box as if you help them you will furnish them with evidence due to the contents.

The fact that we have strayed away from these rights is shocking really.
You should be allowed, as I said, to simply sit there like a statue whenever police are asking you stuff. It is FOR THEM to gain access to things to find evidence, it is not for you to help them do so.
If they need access to a safe/box/computer file then let them crack/break/etc it.

 

[growse]

That's what a lot of pressure groups have tried to claim, it's not actually how the law reads though.

Happy to actually take a look at this and stand corrected. I've based my conclusions on some assumptions, and should probably check them out.

There are already laws on the books that allow people to be prosecuted for non-cooperation though

Then why do we need a separate law for encryption? Either you're (a) cooperative with a warrant/court order, (b) wilfully non-cooperative or (c) unwilfully non-cooperative. (b) should carry a punishment, if demonstrated.

 

[Energize]

You are joking?

Nothing to suggest he's a paedophile, its more than suggested, he was arrested in May as part of an investigation into child sexual abuse images, yet he refused to open his computer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...e-after-tiger-sex-image-found-to-be-joke.html

As you can see the standard of suspicion required for an arrest is less than nothing in the UK.

I want to know how they know it's a 50 char password.

Possibly the encryption program he used allows a maximum of 50 chars so they just assumed? Even 21 chars would exhaust the key space though.

 

[Richie]

Anyone up at court for it must have some heavy duty proof against them, the police don't just throw that case up without solid proof.

I think you should perhaps spend some time at court (public gallery) then you may change your mind on this one.


The courts are not just full of guilty people and if you believe that they are, then you are being very naive....

 

[redshadows]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...e-after-tiger-sex-image-found-to-be-joke.html

As you can see the standard of suspicion required for an arrest is less than nothing in the UK.

"Man cleared of porn charge after 'tiger sex' image found to be joke"

The headline says it all, this dude wont let it be proved or disproved he likes it hanging over his head does he?

Ach, Im done with this thead, its just too much, believe what you will.

I think you should perhaps spend some time at court (public gallery) then you may change your mind on this one.


The courts are not just full of guilty people and if you believe that they are, then you are being very naive....

I have done better than that I spent time, sitting down in the court cells waiting to be heard I can tell you there are not many innocent folks in jail.
I never met any.

 

[Richie]

Perhaps, I forgot that Labour changed it so you couldn't always have a jury trial.

I didnt think any Summary prosecutions were decided by Jury, only Solemn.... Least thats the ways in Scotland and I thought England was the same ??

 

[Monkey Puzzle]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...e-after-tiger-sex-image-found-to-be-joke.html

As you can see the standard of suspicion required for an arrest is less than nothing in the UK.

Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "put a tiger in your tank"!

 

[growse]

"Man cleared of porn charge after 'tiger sex' image found to be joke"

The headline says it all, this dude wont let it be proved or disproved he likes it hanging over his head does he?

Ach, Im done with this thead, its just too much, believe what you will.

Anyone up at court for it must have some heavy duty proof against them, the police don't just throw that case up without solid proof.

By your previous comments, he's in court so he must be guilty. Remember?


Do you actually understand how the criminal prosecution process works in this country?

Have you ever been to a court?

 

[sunama]

In civilized society, the natural reaction on being charged with a crime is not to turn over your life, your possessions and all information you possess to the police in some grand idealized hope that they'll "do the best for you".

This is key here, I think.

Anybody would be on guard, if there is some threat that they may be charged with some crime.

At this point in time, I have not committed any sort of crime which I am aware of. However, I wouldn't be happy if I got a knock on the door and had people ruffling through my house. The way I see it, is that if you dig deep enough into anybody's business, something will be found.

Furthermore, most people wouldn't like anybody ruffling through their personal belongings or personal computer files, regardless of whether there is anything dodgy on there or not.

People forget that if Police are investigating you for anything and cannot find enough on you, they will look for anything else for which you can be charged. Their job is not to find you innocent, but to find you guilty. The police will NEVER do the best for you...they will always do whats best for them, ie. look for some crime/rule/law which has been broken.

 

[ecksmen]

I wonder how many people here would have a different opinion if the acused had done something to their family or friend.

If I was in his position, I'd be offering everything I could to prove I was innocent and get the situation resolved as quickly as possible but then I don't have anything to hide...

 

[gambitt]

People forget that if Police are investigating you for anything and cannot find enough on you, they will look for anything else for which you can be charged. Their job is not to find you innocent, but to find you guilty. The police will NEVER do the best for you...they will always do whats best for them, ie. look for some crime/rule/law which has been broken.

Exactly! When the police give their stats to the "men upstairs" do they focus on how many innocent people they exonerated this year or how many convictions they got?

And guess what? They want to improve their stats for next year.

 

[sunama]

Anyone up at court for it must have some heavy duty proof against them, the police don't just throw that case up without solid proof.

I used to work in a prosecutions department in a public company.

I was witness to an "incident". I gave a witness statement. I knew exactly what happened throughout the incident as I was bang in the middle of it.

The case eventually went to court and it was shocking to know that the defendant was being charged for something he absolutely did not do.

Of course, when the case went to court, they invited witnesses (of which I was one), who all gave evidence. Luckily justice was served and the defendant got off scott-free.

The point here is that just because the Police/CPS charge you with an offence, it does not mean you are guilty. The Police/CPS are quite happy to charge you with offences for which there is no proof and is a complete lie. Remember, their job is to charge you and get convictions. Their job is not to see justice served. I have seen this first hand.

 

[redshadows]

By your previous comments, he's in court so he must be guilty. Remember?


Do you actually understand how the criminal prosecution process works in this country?

Have you ever been to a court?

not worth the effort.

 

[Masterdog]

Simply not true. Of course it's the police's job to see justice served. They don't want to convict an innocent person any more than anyone else does. This thread has taken a turn for the paranoid.

 

[Richie]

I wonder how many people here would have a different opinion if the acused had done something to their family or friend.

If I was in his position, I'd be offering everything I could to prove I was innocent and get the situation resolved as quickly as possible but then I don't have anything to hide...

Being co-operative (when you feel you done done nothing wrong) does not necessarily mean you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Richie]

The point here is that just because the Police/CPS charge you with an offence, it does not mean you are guilty.

Its a shame that members of the public do not realise this. They feel that "if they were charged they MUST be guilty".... pathetic TBH.

 

[gambitt]

Simply not true. Of course it's the police's job to see justice served. They don't want to convict an innocent person any more than anyone else does.

Like sunama says, you may be innocent of the original alleged offence but if they can't "do you" for that they will try to find something else to charge you with. Obviously this isn't always the case but I have also experienced this first hand when the police tried to give me a Police Caution for something I did not do.

 

[growse]

incapable of making the effort.

FTFY.

 

[ecksmen]

Being co-operative (when you feel you done done nothing wrong) does not necessarily mean you have nothing to worry about.

I'd take the hit on being done for some unlicensed software than having child pornography related charges hanging over me.

(this post does not constitute admitance of having ilegal material on my systems).

Whilst I agree you should have privacy, I'd be willing to give up that if it means down the line a child isn't subjected to abuse by helping the police do their job.

I think privacy is largely realted to peoples ego's - who gives a crap if you've looked a some porn sites, or bought some sex toys etc... you're hardly alone in doing it.

 

[NickM]

I am genuinely scared of ending up in court one day with a jury full of redshadows ready to hit the big red GUILTY button at the first opportunity.

I agree! Do we have a jury selection process in this country, where prosecution/defence can object to jurors? If so he'd be kicked off straight away (I'd hope).

I wonder how many people here would have a different opinion if the acused had done something to their family or friend.

If I was in his position, I'd be offering everything I could to prove I was innocent and get the situation resolved as quickly as possible but then I don't have anything to hide...

Admittedly I don't know the specifics of the case but if he had then there would be some ACTUAL EVIDENCE and they wouldn't need his decryption key..