Oldskool Rpg's and no mention of Bards Tale on the C64?
Now that was a game!!
I mentioned Bards Tale on the first page
Old skool RPGs - Really that good or just nostalgia?
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I mentioned Bards Tale on the first page
Best RPG I've ever played is Persona 4 by a long shot and that came out in 2009. (2008 in Japan and the US)
I don't think games have to be old 'skool' or anything, just good which is what Persona 4. Well good is an understatement, for me it beats the pants off Dragon Age but admittedly it doesn't have quite as much re playability (enough for a second playthrough for sure though)
I don't think games have to be old 'skool' or anything, just good which is what Persona 4. Well good is an understatement, for me it beats the pants off Dragon Age but admittedly it doesn't have quite as much re playability (enough for a second playthrough for sure though)
Yeah I agree it can be tough, I tried Planescape Torment a few years back and it was very offputting how the game/interface looked (don't think it helped that if you use high resolution it kinda made everything too small).
Then there is System Shock 2, I played that probably around 5-6 years ago and the graphics just weren't quite immersive enough for what the game is trying to achieve, even with some updated textures (it was still only 16bit for example).
I think the turning point is around the year 2000, most things older than that tend to feel very clunky. Outdated graphics in themselves aren't necessarily an issue for me, it's more a case of the effect they have on the immersion and indeed 'usability' of the game.
I think part of the problem is that modern games have got pretty good at holding your hand in the earlier stages, with tutorial-esque sections to guide you through the basic controls and interface. Whereas with oldschool games (not just RPGs to be fair) it is usually a case of simply throwing you in expecting you to know everything you need to from the manual.
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Soldato
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My bad mate, thanks for clearing that up.
There is high res texture packs available for System Shock 2. Whenever I fire up an old game the first thing I do is look for any enhancements that are worth downloading.
Your right about 2000 being a turning point, that's when things started to go downhill!
I don't mind tutorials as such, but many games now hold your hand all the way through always making it obvious where to go, highlighting items of interest it's just all to easy.
As for graphics, well I can understand why people want their games to look good. Apart from a few exceptions I don't find they effect immersion or usability. I think Baldur's Gate still looks pretty nice.
This hits the nail on the head for me and sums up what I think exactly. Good graphics and presentaion aren't just there to look pretty, they create a much more immersive experience for the player. I also agree about the accessibility or hand holding early on. This is probably more to do with the fact I'm more of a casual gamer these days, but I don't have the time and patience to spend hours just trying to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing, and then finally do it. I think a few brief tutorials, decent tool tips and a tiny bit of linearity early on in a game make it so much easier to get into. After that the game can do whatever it likes.
I've put about 5 hours into BG1 so far and even though I couldn't get the widescreen mod to work I don't see it making any difference to my views on the game. It's just dull imo. The controls are bad I hate having to constantantly move the camera/screen about when I move my character. Combat is boring and the animation is clunky. The quests seem no different to any other rpg, they're just made more difficult by providing more vague descriptions meaning you waste more time figuring out what to do and where to go. As far as I can tell the only thing it has going for it is a half decent story but it's just reading huge amounts of dialogue.. where's the fun in that? If I wanted to read a load of text and get a good story I'd read a book.
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By the sounds of it, this might not make any difference to you. But BG II has none of the problems you've experienced in I. It uses a better graphics engine, while not being Fallout 3, I actually think the graphics are better for this type of game.
There is text describing spells and items you find on your travels, but I find that interesting as it adds depth. Almost everything you find in BG II is useful for something, but in Fallout 3 for example, I ran around carrying hand saws, empty bottles and darts, and other pointless things, and never needed to actually buy anything from the merchant.
No proper companions in Fallout 3, so lets compare it to Dragons Age... This has the best group dynamics of the recent gen I think, better then Mass effect * Mass effect 2. It all seems very linear however, and there doesn't seem to be much random dialog that pops up and makes you laugh or surprise you. In BG II, these random, but appropriate pieces of dialog happen quite often and it's really entertaining, it's hard to describe.
Almost all dialog in BG II starts of with voice work, then you read the rest, and you know exactly what to do for any quest your interested in doing.
I will say BG II, is a lot more challenging as any RPG I have played before, I'm stuck now because I can't figure a way to prevent an enemy from casting a hold spell on my entire party, even when my party is buffed up, very tricky and challenging but I'll keep at it.
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Baldurs gate is the king of RGPs.
I think the problem is that you don't like RPGs. From what you're saying you come across as a more visceral gamer so maybe something action-orientated would be more up your street? Different strokes for different folks.
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This is what I was going to say. Baldur's Gate is a great example of an RPG, I think you just don't like 'em
Regarding graphics, I find 3d tends to age far faster than isometric/hand drawn style personally. Its only recently I feel 3d has got to the point were its worth using for certain game types, but before now its like every company has felt they had to go 3D, and you just don't get the same level of detail as you either have few polygons or it takes far too long for them to be made. 3D was also a very new way to make art in a game, and I don't feel it was anywhere near at a point that hand drawn stuff was then
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I hate this need for 3D rpgs. I wish they would bring back the top down style for some titles.
Apart from Diablo there aren't many I can think of that have kept me interested long enough. Not even sure I'd find that as enjoyable if played today. Prefer the films to the games with regard to sword and scorcery. AD&D but with books - amazing times. Will never forget some of those days, maybe because they were when I was quite young.
Not necessarily; supposedly he feels similarly to myself and I like some RPGs e.g. KOTOR, Vampire Bloodlines, Oblivion, Shining Force 2 etc (also Deus Ex, Fallout 3, Diablo 2 etc but some might consider them not to be true RPGs).
I know - that's why I mentioned that I used them?
To be fair as I said this was 5-6 years ago so maybe even better enhancements are available now, but at the time I wasn't impressed.
Yeah I'm not saying games need to be dumbed down so much that everything is handed to you on a plate, but I like a bit of guidance at the start in terms of how the interface works.
Haven't played BG yet but for me Planescape Torment was a good example of usability being compromised, the UI just seemed a bit small and nothing gripped me about the start of the game enough to warrant keeping playing, maybe a bit more guidance might have helped.
Again just to reiterate we aren't saying "If it doesn't look like a DX12 tech demo I ain't playing", I play plenty of old games that look 'awful' in the eyes of some. For example the main game I play is Quakeworld which was released in 1996 and even then I have the graphics turned down below default levels so if anything it looks closer to Doom. Games like Deus Ex seem fine to me even though if you showed it to a gamer brought up on the current generation of consoles they would probably laugh in your face. I'd say probably at least 40% of the games I start playing are over a year old (and many much more than 1 year old).
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It sounds to me like your disregarding the upper tier of a genre or a specific game without a) giving it a chance b) not playing the game.
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I know - that's why I mentioned that I used them?
To be fair as I said this was 5-6 years ago so maybe even better enhancements are available now, but at the time I wasn't impressed.
Sorry totally missed that!
Did you used the widescreen mod at all? Like BG, the GUI doesn't scale very well, and from what I understand if you set the res to high it becomes a bit unusable. But, I'm just basing my experience on BG mods, Torment is one I still need to play and will do soon.
Just out of pure curiosity, why do you set the graphics so low?
FooAtari said:
I love RPGs, which is why I'm so keen to try and discover more about the ones I missed. If, like me, you read a lot on the web about gaming, you'll know that there's a huge amount of praise for these old RPGs and that many gamers claim they are still the best representation of the genre, despite being 10 years old. However, having tried a few of the popular ones myself I'm left wondering what all the fuss is about and so naturally I'm left thinking that maybe it's just all nostalgia. I know there are a few people that have picked up old games for the first time recently and instantly liked them, but I think these are rare cases.