UK-France Defence Treaties

The Dread Pirate · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:16

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11670247

Ok It makes sense imho but given our past (however distant) relations with France is this really a good idea.

OriginalJonty · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:18

Capn' $qu!ff said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11670247

Ok It makes sense imho but given our past (however distant) relations with France is this really a good idea.

Unless the French are looking to spark hostilities again, I say why not? We currently can't afford full defensive capabilities so having a joint defence while we rectify the situation is the most logical thing we can do.

Tombstone · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:19

Makes sense imo, but did we have to pick France? Couldnt we do this with Germany instead, that way we'd get access to all the latest Heckler & Koch stuff and the latest Leopard tanks and what not.

clv101 · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:21

UK and France are the two main European military powers. Makes perfect sense to me.

The Dread Pirate · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:21

Tombstone said:
Makes sense imo, but did we have to pick France?

France have the Nutron bomb

Tombstone · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:22

Yeah...but its France ! , I mean its not like they are going to actually fight

The Dread Pirate · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:22

OriginalJonty said:
Unless the French are looking to spark hostilities again

This is what worries me look at sarkozy then look at a picture of a certain corsican from frances history.

OriginalJonty · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:22

Tombstone said:
Yeah...but its France ! , I mean its not like they are going to actually fight

Discount on white flags?

matt_fsr · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:25

As far as I can see the only reason for this treaty is so that we can actually have some aircraft to fly off our new soon-to-be-commissioned £6Billion supercarriers.

As we'd look a bit stupid having commissioned these carriers without any aircraft to fly off them wouldnt we? :rolleyes:

Oh wait, up until today we had.

And who's going to fly the planes off our new carriers? French pilots or ours?

As said before, what if the theatre of war demands entirely UK pilots, do we just not send a carrier?

Ahleckz · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:27

Why would one particular war demand entirely UK pilots?

Vonhelmet · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:29

Tombstone said:
Makes sense imo, but did we have to pick France? Couldnt we do this with Germany instead, that way we'd get access to all the latest Heckler & Koch stuff and the latest Leopard tanks and what not.

Fabrique Nationale?

EDIT: Damnit, they're Belgian.

Captain_Slick · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:31

Capn' $qu!ff said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11670247

Ok It makes sense imho but given our past (however distant) relations with France is this really a good idea.

What about our past (however distant) relations with the USA? Have they been an issue during the past 100 years or so that we've been their cohorts?

scorza · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:33

I applaud the first steps towards an EU armed force. Gotta love those unintended consequences.

Vonhelmet · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:33

Captain_Slick said:
What about our past (however distant) relations with the USA? Have they been an issue during the past 100 years or so that we've been their cohorts?

Indeed. We had a fairly famous falling out with the founders of the USA a couple of hundred years back...

VoG · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:34

Ahleckz said:
Why would one particular war demand entirely UK pilots?

i couldn't see the French getting involved militarily if there was another flare up in the Falklands years from now.

The Dread Pirate · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:34

Captain_Slick said:
What about our past (however distant) relations with the USA? Have they been an issue during the past 100 years or so that we've been their cohorts?

No but they've never tried to invade us they just kicked us out.

edit: Wait What about all those "accidental" friendly fire incidents!

matt_fsr · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:35

Ahleckz said:
Why would one particular war demand entirely UK pilots?

Most likely political sensitivities.

For instance, if we were involved in operations against a previous French colony, it wouldnt exactly do us any favours to have French pilots dropping bombs would it?

mmj_uk · 2 Nov 2010 at 14:52

Why do we need this? who exactly is going to attack a nuclear armed power such as us?

Russia and China might decide to nuke us off the map but a defense pact with France is hardly going to save us is it?

This seems like just another baby step towards globalization, Germany and a few others will steadily join the pact and before you know it the EU has full military control.

Cosimo · 2 Nov 2010 at 15:00

Capn' $qu!ff said:
This is what worriesqe me look at sarkozy then look at a picture of a certain corsican from frances history.

I'd be more worried about your use of capitalization then of the French.

clv101 · 2 Nov 2010 at 15:06

mmj_uk said:
Why do we need this? who exactly is going to attack a nuclear armed power such as us?

Russia and China might decide to nuke us off the map but a defense pact with France is hardly going to save us is it?

This seems like just another baby step towards globalization, Germany and a few others will steadily join the pact and before you know it the EU has full military control.

See this from Robert Peston a couple of weeks ago:

When I ask senior military, as I did last night and last week, to construct plausible scenarios in which Britain's giant new supercarriers would be essential for the defence of the realm, these admirals and generals looks slightly embarrassed.

When pushed, they mention the possibility of two great powers (not Iran) turning into serious enemies of the UK.

I won't mention the names of those countries (though you'll guess which they are), because those same military leaders hastily add: "of course we'd be insane to even think about going to war against them; we should be building permanent enduring alliances with them; and if we did find ourselves at war with them, the carriers would probably be sunk in five minutes".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2010/10/what_a_carrier_on.html

'War' between powerful military just doesn't work. It'd all be over rather quickly with most people dead. Defence posture isn't about 'fighting' other countries, it's about projecting our political opinion beyond the national boundary. Ensuring that the state is larger than the nation.