That damn london Photoshoot :-)

edgedemon

edgedemon

edgedemon

Soldato
Joined
10 Oct 2005
Posts
4,192
Location
London
Ahh, dont you just love photography!

Guys, after only 3 days you have managed to ruin my enjoyment of my new P&S camera - those of you at the London meet anyway!
To be fair, it wasn't just everyone there that day, it was also when I was trying to be a little creative when shooting the water fountains, my poor S95 just didn't really have the apperture range to do what I wanted it to..
If you add into the equation the serious amount of kit on display and then multiply that by Bryan Petersons book (understanding exposure), which really makes it clear that I need to upgrade to a DSLR, then the answer is that I need to spend some money :-)

Im too new at this, and too broke to shell out on a DSLR, and my understanding of photography isn't really enough to be able to spec up what I really want to do. Having had a browse around, Im going to buy a 2nd hand DSLR purely with the intention of learning, with a view to get a more modern one once I know a bit more and am sure of what I want..

Reading through some reviews, Im initially thinking a Pentax K100D or K100D super, as this seems to have been very well regarded for its image quality and feature set back in the day and seems like a good camera that will allow me to have a play, get a little bit creative and still get a half decent image at a low price - they seem to be going for the £100-£150 mark
ALso, lenses for this seem quite cheap - I quite fancy a macro lens!

Im appealing to the enthusiasts here - are there any other models which are comparable or better? I don't have the history or knowledge so am open to advice - what 2nd hand DSLR would you recommend for me?
 
I suspect with a budget of around 100-150 mark, you can pick up a Canon 350D with Kit lens.

Don't hold me to that though, as it's been a while since I checked the prices on that, was just what I saw last time a friend went to flog theirs.

EDIT: Also, I used a 350D with 1.8 50mm for quite a while as my first introduction, it was pretty good, and I was mainly shooting gig photography on it and got some pretty good images for the low light situation I was shooting in to be fair. I shot some other bits and pieces with it too, I'd just have to remember what as it was a while ago!
 
Second hand Nikon D40 (Sorry, dont know what a similar priced Canon would be).

Have no experience of Pentax, but everyone was telling me when i got my first DSLR to avoid, because Nikon and Canon are superior across the range.
 
Alpherah said:
Second hand Nikon D40 (Sorry, dont know what a similar priced Canon would be).

Have no experience of Pentax, but everyone was telling me when i got my first DSLR to avoid, because Nikon and Canon are superior across the range.
Click to expand...

I wish! I haven't seen one of those go for under 200 quid yet.

I will look at canon, but the lenses seem to be quite pricey whereas the glass for the Pentax seemed more reasonable?
 
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Well to be fair, you never gave a budget ;)

Correct me if im wrong (somebody) but dont Pentax use a different type of Sensor compared to Nikon, Canon and Sony? which results in less control over DoF ?
 
If you are genuinely keen to learn photography and particularly how light works, aperture, depth of field and shutter speed then maybe you should consider a SLR initially rather than a DSLR?

You can buy inexpensive film and just pay for development, scan the negatives to digital and print in the usual way. This combined with an old classic like Michael Freeman's photography books, will really push you ahead. You might even be able to score a camer for nix by asking around friends and relatives, nearly everyone knows someone with an old SLR that doesn't get used.

I shoot both digital and film, with 35mm and medium-format cameras and each brings something different to the table. The "advantage" of fully-manual for a while is that you are forced to think about everything you're doing in terms of cmposition, settings etc because you can't just erase and have another go!

Whatever you decide good luck and happy snapping!
 
I have a d70 for sale for £100, so do numerous others on here, its not expensive to get into especially if you believe some of the things preached online.
 
Why not grab a dirt cheap film SLR instead, nice compliment to a decent digital compact and you pick things up much quicker when you're forced to think with a limited number of shots...
 
i would suggest not getting a film SLR, it might have a low upfront cost, but the continuing costs will be annoying, plus you get the time factor. sending film off, waiting for it to return, scanning etc.

i would save up for a basic DSLR, or even a bridge camera?
 
I think that one of the key advantages to a DSLR is that you can experiment without worrying about each shutter press costing you 20p. Plus you get immediate feedback on your exposure/framing/lighting etc.

My first ever SLR (back in about 1985) was a manual focus Ricoh SLR with P, AV and TV plus full manual modes and a 50mm f1.8 lens. Brilliant. You really don't need fancy zooms, a 50mm prime will let you learn an awful lot. I got a cheap enlarger/developing tank and stock reels of FP4 and HP5 and bingo with my own developing the cost per frame went right down as I only printed the images that were worth it..

A canon 300d plus a 50mm f1.8 will give you great images for about £90 for the body and £70 for the lens - £150 all up if you are lucky. A great combo that will let you learn as much as you need to.
 
The used Sony range can offer some bargains. A Sony Alpha A200 for exampe, with kit lens should be in budget, and is equivalently/better specced than the D40 for example.

Lenses arent cheap-cheap though, but if you pick up some old AF Minolta lenses you can get some bargains.
 
Alpherah said:
Well to be fair, you never gave a budget ;)

Correct me if im wrong (somebody) but dont Pentax use a different type of Sensor compared to Nikon, Canon and Sony? which results in less control over DoF ?
Click to expand...

Being polite, you're wrong, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion? :confused: :)

Whilst there are differences in Depth of Field observable between different sensors for a given lens/aperture, that's really limited to full frame vs 1.5x crop/2.0x crop etc.

For a Pentax K100d or any of the other APS-C (1.5x-1.7x) crop sensor cameras out there, the depth of field observable with a given lens focal length and aperture will be no different with any of them.

At the OP, that Pentax is a fine starter DSLR camera, and you will have access to a myriad of superb relatively inexpensive Pentax lenses as well.

Ideally, you'd get the camera brand you're likely to settle for long term, but you can't possibly know where you'll end up at this point or even whether you'll carry on wanting to use a DSLR at all.

So, in that regard, and given your budget, I'd get whatever you can afford and go out and have fun. With just one DSLR body and lens to sell, even if you go with a different brand in the end, you will probably be able to sell it on easily enough and not lose much, if any, cash.
 
Some interesting ideas

Film is a none starter for me, I like the instant nature of digital, have an idea, try it and see instantly if it works. Im thinking for example of the smoke pictures, if I tried that on film, sent it away, and then a couple of days later find I didn't get one shot I wanted, Id be gutted.

As for saving a bit more and buying better - I can't deny Im not tempted, but I feel it is a bit early to spend too much, when I don't know enough to spec exactly what I want.The idea behind this is to buy a cheap dslr, use it to learn and experiment and then flog it on in a year or so and buy a new one when I have some idea of what I want and how I will use it - if Im being silly, then this is the thread to tell me so!

I want ot try some of the stuff BP talks about in 'understanding exposure'
so need a camera that can go further than my S95

Besides, I only bought my s95 last week, so need to keep expenditure down as much as possible. If a good model was recommended, I could stretch to 200 or so, but there would have to be clear advantages for doing that

The K100D was recommended to me as a cheap way to do all this, and the lenses are cheap 2nd hand and the reviews do say that the image quality is very good for 6MP. I will admit to having no idea whether Pentax DOF is any good compared to other manufacturers though?

Will look at the specs of the Nikon and get back to you on that one when I get in from work...

Am I making sense?
 
I too will recommend saving another £50-£100 and investing in a 2nd hand D40/60 or Canon equivalent. You'll only regreat buying the Pentax and then not having the scope for expansion you desire a few months down the line. My D40 has served me well as a beginner for 2 years, and I doubt I would sell it for more than £150-200 when I finally get round to buying a D90.

Having said that, kudos to you for joining us with your p&s on Saturday. I personally find using them (for work) these days very limiting and hence frustrating.
 
I have upgraded to a new Sony NEX-5 so am selling my Sony Alpha A100, will stick it on ebay tonight hopefully including the whole kit and zoom lens.
 
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